1 00:00:04,910 --> 00:00:03,889 well it's funny because but the book is 2 00:00:06,980 --> 00:00:04,920 about a number of things but it's 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:06,990 essentially about how you have 4 00:00:11,390 --> 00:00:09,330 concentrated control of American 5 00:00:13,190 --> 00:00:11,400 politics but not the way you might 6 00:00:14,449 --> 00:00:13,200 expect which is like through our 7 00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:14,459 political system but actually through 8 00:00:18,860 --> 00:00:17,310 the marketplace so through control about 9 00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:18,870 the way that we do business 10 00:00:23,870 --> 00:00:21,900 monopolies private equity finance that's 11 00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:23,880 the that's kind of the core of political 12 00:00:28,340 --> 00:00:25,830 power so just over the last couple of 13 00:00:30,890 --> 00:00:28,350 weeks I mean yesterday big character in 14 00:00:32,569 --> 00:00:30,900 the book is Michael Milken who was the 15 00:00:34,459 --> 00:00:32,579 junk bond King and the 80s really 16 00:00:37,579 --> 00:00:34,469 restructured a lot of American corporate 17 00:00:40,340 --> 00:00:37,589 power and politics and every Trump 18 00:00:41,899 --> 00:00:40,350 pardoned him yesterday which was like it 19 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:41,909 was kind of you know it's like it's 20 00:00:47,630 --> 00:00:45,809 fascinating how important he was and the 21 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:47,640 other thing that has been coming up more 22 00:00:51,649 --> 00:00:50,010 recently is pharmaceutical supply chains 23 00:00:54,380 --> 00:00:51,659 which you don't normally think of as a 24 00:00:58,939 --> 00:00:54,390 part of politics but you know because of 25 00:01:00,799 --> 00:00:58,949 the the coronavirus in China we we make 26 00:01:02,959 --> 00:01:00,809 all our pharmaceuticals basically in 27 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:02,969 China and there are a lot of shortages 28 00:01:07,069 --> 00:01:04,710 and now all of a sudden policymakers 29 00:01:08,870 --> 00:01:07,079 here are freaking out and the thing 30 00:01:10,910 --> 00:01:08,880 about you know and I write about supply 31 00:01:12,590 --> 00:01:10,920 chains in the book a little bit it's not 32 00:01:13,910 --> 00:01:12,600 trying to make it sound boring it's 33 00:01:16,490 --> 00:01:13,920 actually fascinating stuff it's all the 34 00:01:18,620 --> 00:01:16,500 money and power in the world right but 35 00:01:21,469 --> 00:01:18,630 you know the thing is is is our politics 36 00:01:23,630 --> 00:01:21,479 used to be based on on the politics of 37 00:01:25,490 --> 00:01:23,640 production how do we make stuff how do 38 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:25,500 we sell stuff how do we get stuff to 39 00:01:31,069 --> 00:01:27,210 each other how do we you know as 40 00:01:33,139 --> 00:01:31,079 Americans trade with each other trade 41 00:01:34,910 --> 00:01:33,149 goods and services and crops and ideas 42 00:01:37,190 --> 00:01:34,920 how do we make sure that we can be free 43 00:01:39,889 --> 00:01:37,200 in doing that and in the last 40 years 44 00:01:42,529 --> 00:01:39,899 we really sort of stopped seeing that as 45 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:42,539 part of politics at all and so as kind 46 00:01:44,990 --> 00:01:43,770 of we just stopped saying either that 47 00:01:46,999 --> 00:01:45,000 might be a problem it's not a political 48 00:01:49,910 --> 00:01:47,009 problem politics about flag-burning what 49 00:01:50,990 --> 00:01:49,920 you care about that what you've seen is 50 00:01:53,450 --> 00:01:51,000 is since we haven't been paying 51 00:01:56,090 --> 00:01:53,460 attention you've seen a rollup power in 52 00:01:59,029 --> 00:01:56,100 every market pretty much from search 53 00:02:00,980 --> 00:01:59,039 engines to social networks to Airlines 54 00:02:02,209 --> 00:02:00,990 to cheerleading I mean I just aurion 55 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:02,219 cheerleading it's amazing it's a 56 00:02:06,380 --> 00:02:04,890 monopoly to you know smaller peanut 57 00:02:08,540 --> 00:02:06,390 butter you know kind of everything and 58 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:08,550 the net effect of this is that we're all 59 00:02:11,869 --> 00:02:10,140 kind of living in this society where 60 00:02:14,860 --> 00:02:11,879 there are these invisible barriers of 61 00:02:16,630 --> 00:02:14,870 control and we're all kind of like 62 00:02:18,190 --> 00:02:16,640 disillusioned and but we're not quite 63 00:02:19,690 --> 00:02:18,200 sure where it's coming from and what's 64 00:02:22,119 --> 00:02:19,700 fascinating is that we've had this 65 00:02:24,070 --> 00:02:22,129 problem before and they go over it how 66 00:02:25,899 --> 00:02:24,080 we dealt with in the 1920s and 30s and 67 00:02:27,850 --> 00:02:25,909 how theirs are kind of like as weird 68 00:02:30,009 --> 00:02:27,860 it's kind of like the rosetta stone like 69 00:02:31,690 --> 00:02:30,019 the Keystone to understanding politics 70 00:02:33,009 --> 00:02:31,700 is really to understanding concentrated 71 00:02:35,649 --> 00:02:33,019 power in the marketplace and how it 72 00:02:38,289 --> 00:02:35,659 manifests in our political system so 73 00:02:40,630 --> 00:02:38,299 it's like actually really exciting we 74 00:02:42,069 --> 00:02:40,640 are talking about monopoly again I would 75 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:42,079 love it to be the central question 76 00:02:46,089 --> 00:02:44,510 because I think it really is but but 77 00:02:47,289 --> 00:02:46,099 it's much better than it used to be a 78 00:02:49,750 --> 00:02:47,299 few years ago when we weren't talking 79 00:02:51,789 --> 00:02:49,760 about it at all exactly yeah I was just 80 00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:51,799 about to add that it seems that it is 81 00:02:55,390 --> 00:02:54,049 now starting to pop up hence making your 82 00:02:58,089 --> 00:02:55,400 book Goliath 83 00:02:59,800 --> 00:02:58,099 even more relevant as people are now 84 00:03:01,830 --> 00:02:59,810 paying attention to it because babe you 85 00:03:07,180 --> 00:03:01,840 seem to be waking up to the idea of 86 00:03:10,599 --> 00:03:07,190 Facebook Google Amazon at a minimum of 87 00:03:14,020 --> 00:03:10,609 be app learn now talking about the you 88 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:14,030 know how do we regulate these although I 89 00:03:17,319 --> 00:03:14,930 don't think when we talk about 90 00:03:19,750 --> 00:03:17,329 regulating Facebook necessarily talking 91 00:03:21,789 --> 00:03:19,760 about breaking it up they're talking 92 00:03:23,229 --> 00:03:21,799 about you know content that's allowed or 93 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:23,239 not allowed on Facebook well I'm talking 94 00:03:31,270 --> 00:03:28,730 about breaking it up definitely so yeah 95 00:03:33,699 --> 00:03:31,280 your to put it succinctly mister 96 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:33,709 anti-monopoly I think is a right thing 97 00:03:37,270 --> 00:03:34,310 to say 98 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:37,280 and you feel that you know the state of 99 00:03:43,809 --> 00:03:40,489 the American economy is is not healthy 100 00:03:45,939 --> 00:03:43,819 right as you see a lot of monopolies out 101 00:03:49,930 --> 00:03:45,949 there so let's start with the the basics 102 00:03:54,270 --> 00:03:49,940 though of why a monopoly is inherently 103 00:03:57,819 --> 00:03:54,280 bad okay so a monopoly means control 104 00:04:00,759 --> 00:03:57,829 unified control of a recognized branch 105 00:04:02,229 --> 00:04:00,769 of trade or service right so a lot of 106 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:02,239 people think oh a monopoly means just 107 00:04:05,140 --> 00:04:03,530 one company selling everything that's 108 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:05,150 not what I mean it just means having a 109 00:04:10,809 --> 00:04:08,510 control of a market no your question is 110 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:10,819 what's what's the problem with that well 111 00:04:15,099 --> 00:04:12,169 there's a lot of different problems with 112 00:04:19,529 --> 00:04:15,109 that with the monopoly but the the basic 113 00:04:24,339 --> 00:04:19,539 issue is that property rights only work 114 00:04:26,350 --> 00:04:24,349 in a stable system if property combines 115 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:26,360 control over something so control over a 116 00:04:28,659 --> 00:04:28,010 piece of land or an item or something 117 00:04:30,580 --> 00:04:28,669 like that 118 00:04:32,980 --> 00:04:30,590 with the responsibility to take care of 119 00:04:34,629 --> 00:04:32,990 it right so you get to own land but 120 00:04:36,189 --> 00:04:34,639 you're not allowed to just pollute it 121 00:04:38,379 --> 00:04:36,199 and cause lots of problems for everyone 122 00:04:39,879 --> 00:04:38,389 else right and what's happened in the 123 00:04:42,670 --> 00:04:39,889 last 30 or 40 years is you have these 124 00:04:44,559 --> 00:04:42,680 giant systems that people control but 125 00:04:45,730 --> 00:04:44,569 don't have to take responsibility for so 126 00:04:47,469 --> 00:04:45,740 that would be something like Facebook 127 00:04:49,330 --> 00:04:47,479 where Mark Zuckerberg controls Facebook 128 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:49,340 but he doesn't actually have it's not 129 00:04:53,739 --> 00:04:51,710 actually responsible for what happens on 130 00:04:55,629 --> 00:04:53,749 Facebook like there's 2 billion people 131 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:55,639 on it he gets to make the money from it 132 00:04:59,350 --> 00:04:57,770 he gets to set the rules but if a bunch 133 00:05:01,209 --> 00:04:59,360 of those people are you know 134 00:05:03,450 --> 00:05:01,219 radicalizing each other or doing really 135 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:03,460 dangerous things manipulating each other 136 00:05:07,149 --> 00:05:05,810 he's not responsible for it and that's 137 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:07,159 kind of broadly speaking what you've 138 00:05:10,629 --> 00:05:08,810 seen across our political economy in 139 00:05:12,850 --> 00:05:10,639 lots of different sectors you have sort 140 00:05:15,159 --> 00:05:12,860 of a small group of people that are that 141 00:05:16,269 --> 00:05:15,169 are that have control over lots of 142 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:16,279 different markets but they don't 143 00:05:19,570 --> 00:05:17,930 actually have any responsibility for it 144 00:05:21,219 --> 00:05:19,580 another a number of ways that we can 145 00:05:23,260 --> 00:05:21,229 like you can sort of talk about it like 146 00:05:25,749 --> 00:05:23,270 we talked a lot about inequality wage 147 00:05:27,129 --> 00:05:25,759 inequality asset inequality that's a 148 00:05:28,929 --> 00:05:27,139 manifestation of monopolies 149 00:05:31,029 --> 00:05:28,939 there's also regional inequality right 150 00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:31,039 so most of the wealth in this country is 151 00:05:34,420 --> 00:05:32,960 now business formation is pooling up 152 00:05:36,010 --> 00:05:34,430 around five or six different cities 153 00:05:37,869 --> 00:05:36,020 because that's where the monopolist live 154 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:37,879 and everywhere else it's really hard to 155 00:05:41,350 --> 00:05:39,409 get any money it's really hard to get 156 00:05:42,459 --> 00:05:41,360 customers and that's a function of 157 00:05:45,219 --> 00:05:42,469 monopolization 158 00:05:46,929 --> 00:05:45,229 they have a lot sorry I want to stay for 159 00:05:49,439 --> 00:05:46,939 a second on the legal definition of 160 00:05:51,579 --> 00:05:49,449 monopolies because it's the only way 161 00:05:52,959 --> 00:05:51,589 anything's gonna get enforced if you 162 00:05:54,329 --> 00:05:52,969 want to go to government you thinking 163 00:05:57,129 --> 00:05:54,339 about this and correct me if I'm wrong 164 00:05:58,779 --> 00:05:57,139 Sherman Antitrust Act says that a 165 00:06:00,719 --> 00:05:58,789 monopoly exists when one firm controls 166 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:00,729 the market for a product or service 167 00:06:06,909 --> 00:06:04,330 which is what you're talking about but 168 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:06,919 then importantly it says and it has 169 00:06:11,529 --> 00:06:09,710 obtained that market power not because 170 00:06:14,290 --> 00:06:11,539 its product or service is superior to 171 00:06:17,709 --> 00:06:14,300 others but by suppressing competition 172 00:06:19,389 --> 00:06:17,719 with anti-competitive conduct so tell me 173 00:06:21,670 --> 00:06:19,399 what you think about that latter part do 174 00:06:24,939 --> 00:06:21,680 you think that that should be an element 175 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:24,949 of what creates an illegal monopoly the 176 00:06:28,570 --> 00:06:26,479 fact that it got that monopoly power 177 00:06:30,399 --> 00:06:28,580 through anti-competitive conduct or do 178 00:06:32,709 --> 00:06:30,409 you think that doesn't matter how they 179 00:06:35,649 --> 00:06:32,719 got there if they got there they need to 180 00:06:38,019 --> 00:06:35,659 be broken up well let me so so let me 181 00:06:39,459 --> 00:06:38,029 just point out that we won monopoly I 182 00:06:42,159 --> 00:06:39,469 mean it's a duopoly but it's it's 183 00:06:42,550 --> 00:06:42,169 domestically it's a monopoly is Boeing 184 00:06:44,110 --> 00:06:42,560 so 185 00:06:46,090 --> 00:06:44,120 gonna say one last thing is hidden risk 186 00:06:47,530 --> 00:06:46,100 is a really big problem of Monopoly 187 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:47,540 would a monopoly means putting all your 188 00:06:51,430 --> 00:06:49,730 eggs in one basket so Boeing's having 189 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:51,440 really serious problems if there were 190 00:06:55,090 --> 00:06:53,510 multiple civilian aircraft makers in the 191 00:06:57,430 --> 00:06:55,100 United States we would have some 192 00:06:59,110 --> 00:06:57,440 resiliency but but because Boeing is 193 00:07:00,520 --> 00:06:59,120 having really serious problems and can't 194 00:07:03,070 --> 00:07:00,530 make aircraft it means that our entire 195 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:03,080 civilian aerospace industry in the 196 00:07:07,870 --> 00:07:05,450 United States has collapsed and that's a 197 00:07:10,180 --> 00:07:07,880 crisis so there's another problem and I 198 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:10,190 think it's the hidden risk issue so now 199 00:07:13,330 --> 00:07:12,050 the debate the question you're posing is 200 00:07:14,590 --> 00:07:13,340 like what is the legal definition of 201 00:07:16,659 --> 00:07:14,600 monopoly what's the right way to do it 202 00:07:17,950 --> 00:07:16,669 it's an it's a it's an important 203 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:17,960 question there's a big philosophical 204 00:07:21,159 --> 00:07:20,000 debate some people say oh you know it's 205 00:07:23,260 --> 00:07:21,169 really it's not the fact that they 206 00:07:24,820 --> 00:07:23,270 control the industry that's the problem 207 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:24,830 it's whether they're you know being bad 208 00:07:28,540 --> 00:07:26,930 when they use it or whether they were 209 00:07:31,420 --> 00:07:28,550 bad to gain that control or whether 210 00:07:33,219 --> 00:07:31,430 they're exploiting that power um I'm I'm 211 00:07:34,750 --> 00:07:33,229 what you would call a structuralist 212 00:07:36,190 --> 00:07:34,760 so I don't actually think that you 213 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:36,200 should have to like I don't necessarily 214 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:37,370 think that you should say oh well 215 00:07:40,870 --> 00:07:39,110 they're being bad so we have to like 216 00:07:43,150 --> 00:07:40,880 break them up and it's a law enforcement 217 00:07:45,219 --> 00:07:43,160 matter I think our policy should be you 218 00:07:48,190 --> 00:07:45,229 know doesn't Matt you could be a great 219 00:07:50,380 --> 00:07:48,200 guy you know but but just if you're too 220 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:50,390 big you know it's it's too dangerous 221 00:07:54,190 --> 00:07:52,250 there's like we don't allow trucks of a 222 00:07:55,450 --> 00:07:54,200 certain size on the road because it's 223 00:07:56,890 --> 00:07:55,460 just too dangerous no matter how good a 224 00:07:58,540 --> 00:07:56,900 driver you are we just don't allow them 225 00:07:59,950 --> 00:07:58,550 because it's dangerous I think the same 226 00:08:01,990 --> 00:07:59,960 thing is true with monopolies so it's 227 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:02,000 like no matter how awesome Boeing is at 228 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:05,090 making aerospace and spacecraft they 229 00:08:08,740 --> 00:08:07,370 shouldn't be the only maker of that in 230 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:08,750 the United States because then what you 231 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:10,850 could have is a situation where they you 232 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:12,770 know some idiots take it over or just 233 00:08:16,750 --> 00:08:15,289 make a big mistake and then you know you 234 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:16,760 don't have an aerospace industry anymore 235 00:08:19,510 --> 00:08:18,289 and that's I think the problem you see 236 00:08:21,490 --> 00:08:19,520 with like pharmaceuticals and medical 237 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:21,500 supplies as well it's like okay so you 238 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:23,450 can consolidate them and and maybe they 239 00:08:26,350 --> 00:08:24,680 were you know great at what they were 240 00:08:27,670 --> 00:08:26,360 doing or maybe they weren't but now all 241 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:27,680 of a sudden you have a situation where 242 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:30,050 we don't have adequate supply and we 243 00:08:34,329 --> 00:08:32,810 might have a crisis so I feel I'm not at 244 00:08:36,279 --> 00:08:34,339 somebody who's like oh monopolists are 245 00:08:37,899 --> 00:08:36,289 bad you know they we need you know 246 00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:37,909 they're they're like we need to like 247 00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:39,919 enforce them and and show that they're 248 00:08:42,940 --> 00:08:40,580 bad people 249 00:08:45,010 --> 00:08:42,950 running these companies I I'm more of a 250 00:08:46,630 --> 00:08:45,020 we should we should just sort of break 251 00:08:48,370 --> 00:08:46,640 them up and it really shouldn't be 252 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:48,380 it's like no-fault monopolization it's 253 00:08:50,949 --> 00:08:49,850 not it's you shouldn't have to prove 254 00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:50,959 that they did anything wrong and it 255 00:08:54,970 --> 00:08:52,880 should necessarily be you know a penalty 256 00:08:56,350 --> 00:08:54,980 it should just be by a pilot why are a 257 00:08:57,819 --> 00:08:56,360 significant change 258 00:08:59,380 --> 00:08:57,829 in current law though right because 259 00:09:01,660 --> 00:08:59,390 right now the only way to break up in 260 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:01,670 monopoly is to is to prove that they've 261 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:04,490 been using their market position in an 262 00:09:09,069 --> 00:09:07,730 anti-competitive way well there's a lot 263 00:09:11,199 --> 00:09:09,079 of different ways to break up monopolies 264 00:09:12,940 --> 00:09:11,209 right so the FTC has you know that's the 265 00:09:14,639 --> 00:09:12,950 that's the way you go through antitrust 266 00:09:17,050 --> 00:09:14,649 law antitrust law has a specific 267 00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:17,060 manifestation of anti-monopoly law but 268 00:09:21,340 --> 00:09:18,560 you know the Federal Trade Commission 269 00:09:23,259 --> 00:09:21,350 has has a whole lot of authority that 270 00:09:25,090 --> 00:09:23,269 are that's in consumer protection they 271 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:25,100 have authority against what are called 272 00:09:29,949 --> 00:09:27,910 unfair unfair methods of competition 273 00:09:31,750 --> 00:09:29,959 that they could just come up with rules 274 00:09:33,759 --> 00:09:31,760 saying hey if you own a platform you 275 00:09:35,050 --> 00:09:33,769 can't also compete on that platform and 276 00:09:38,230 --> 00:09:35,060 that would require structural separation 277 00:09:40,569 --> 00:09:38,240 the bank regulate regulatory agencies 278 00:09:42,579 --> 00:09:40,579 have have authority to just break up 279 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:42,589 banks right so a couple of years ago I 280 00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:46,730 believe that Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan 281 00:09:49,930 --> 00:09:48,320 spun off their commodities trading arms 282 00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:49,940 because there's some new rules from the 283 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:51,260 Federal Reserve so there's there's 284 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:52,730 regulatory authority and then there's 285 00:09:56,410 --> 00:09:54,410 you can use statute right which would 286 00:09:58,180 --> 00:09:56,420 which is to say to actually pass laws 287 00:10:00,730 --> 00:09:58,190 and say hey we should do this but like 288 00:10:02,590 --> 00:10:00,740 don't underplay the amount of discretion 289 00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:02,600 that policy makers have because they 290 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:04,399 have a lot of discretion in what they're 291 00:10:08,470 --> 00:10:06,290 trying to do I mean even now even just 292 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:08,480 saying hey we're gonna investigate 293 00:10:12,610 --> 00:10:10,250 Google just to just to see what they're 294 00:10:14,319 --> 00:10:12,620 looking like right Google is now talking 295 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:14,329 internally about potentially spinning 296 00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:16,490 off part of their advertising platform 297 00:10:19,150 --> 00:10:17,660 it's a company called double-click that 298 00:10:21,430 --> 00:10:19,160 they bought about a little over 10 years 299 00:10:24,189 --> 00:10:21,440 ago so it's not like it's not like you 300 00:10:26,740 --> 00:10:24,199 you you don't necessarily have to go 301 00:10:29,259 --> 00:10:26,750 through a long drawn-out antitrust case 302 00:10:30,850 --> 00:10:29,269 to split them up you can do it in lots 303 00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:30,860 of different ways and I do would like 304 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:32,510 different laws I would like you know 305 00:10:36,699 --> 00:10:33,769 stronger rules and everything but it's 306 00:10:37,860 --> 00:10:36,709 like we have a crisis you know and 307 00:10:40,420 --> 00:10:37,870 there's a lot we can do now 308 00:10:43,180 --> 00:10:40,430 so let's tick through some of the hot 309 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:43,190 button companies in your view what what 310 00:10:46,990 --> 00:10:44,810 you know let's just go through maybe the 311 00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:47,000 top three or four that you think 312 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:48,560 Americans should be most concerned about 313 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:50,930 starting with number one why you know I 314 00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:52,730 I think that you know we should be 315 00:10:55,569 --> 00:10:54,380 concerned about like because every 316 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:55,579 monopoly you know if you're in that 317 00:10:59,380 --> 00:10:58,010 market is is a crisis for you or it 318 00:11:01,540 --> 00:10:59,390 could be really problematic for you but 319 00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:01,550 I so and like depending on what we need 320 00:11:05,290 --> 00:11:03,190 some things could be really problematic 321 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:05,300 and then we wouldn't have so I expect so 322 00:11:09,010 --> 00:11:07,250 again I go back to the pharmaceutical 323 00:11:10,180 --> 00:11:09,020 supply chain like I study big tech right 324 00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:10,190 I study 325 00:11:14,590 --> 00:11:12,710 and Facebook so and I'm concerned about 326 00:11:18,340 --> 00:11:14,600 them for a lot of reasons but it's like 327 00:11:19,530 --> 00:11:18,350 if you know we get a virus here we're 328 00:11:21,550 --> 00:11:19,540 gonna really be really concerned about 329 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:21,560 concentration in our pharmaceutical 330 00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:22,910 supply chain right that would be the 331 00:11:28,030 --> 00:11:26,720 most important monopolies now right but 332 00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:28,040 who knows if that will happen it's just 333 00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:29,990 that so so just in terms of priorities 334 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:31,670 but let's but say I'll say that the 335 00:11:37,180 --> 00:11:33,530 biggest problem I think legal problem 336 00:11:38,770 --> 00:11:37,190 are Google Facebook and Amazon because 337 00:11:40,810 --> 00:11:38,780 those are the companies that are the 338 00:11:42,190 --> 00:11:40,820 pace setters for the rest of the economy 339 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:42,200 everyone is trying to imitate that 340 00:11:45,250 --> 00:11:43,370 everybody wants to be a platform 341 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:45,260 everybody wants to build on top of a 342 00:11:49,570 --> 00:11:47,350 platform that they own and control so 343 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:49,580 everyone in the economy is looking at 344 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:51,050 those companies and saying I want to be 345 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:52,730 like Google I want to be like Amazon I 346 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:54,170 want to be like Facebook and they're 347 00:11:56,860 --> 00:11:55,730 merging to do that disney's brought up a 348 00:11:59,380 --> 00:11:56,870 whole bunch of companies so they could 349 00:12:00,370 --> 00:11:59,390 become like that CBS spot a whole bunch 350 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:00,380 of companies so they could become a 351 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:02,090 platform everybody's trying to become a 352 00:12:05,650 --> 00:12:04,250 platform so those are the most important 353 00:12:07,270 --> 00:12:05,660 companies they're also the most 354 00:12:09,550 --> 00:12:07,280 important companies because they control 355 00:12:11,020 --> 00:12:09,560 the flow of ideas in America 356 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:11,030 the flow of information the flow of 357 00:12:15,970 --> 00:12:13,130 books the flow of news they all go 358 00:12:18,490 --> 00:12:15,980 through Google Facebook and or Amazon so 359 00:12:20,650 --> 00:12:18,500 you know right now 2,000 of America's 360 00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:20,660 3,000 counties don't have a daily 361 00:12:25,060 --> 00:12:22,480 newspaper anymore and that's because 362 00:12:26,830 --> 00:12:25,070 Facebook and Google increasingly Amazon 363 00:12:28,930 --> 00:12:26,840 have redirected the flow of advertising 364 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:28,940 money to themselves and that's a crisis 365 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:31,250 that these companies have created just 366 00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:32,690 just that's just that's not the law 367 00:12:36,250 --> 00:12:34,640 that's just like the specific market 368 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:36,260 that they've they've organized and 369 00:12:39,940 --> 00:12:37,850 they're also just kind of undermining 370 00:12:41,410 --> 00:12:39,950 our ability as as citizens to think for 371 00:12:42,490 --> 00:12:41,420 ourselves they're doing it globally so 372 00:12:45,070 --> 00:12:42,500 that's why that there a particular 373 00:12:46,090 --> 00:12:45,080 crisis so I would focus on them okay 374 00:12:47,860 --> 00:12:46,100 let's let's say in that flow of 375 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:47,870 information subject cuz I think that's 376 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:49,610 probably something my listeners are most 377 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:51,770 interested in you know people are very 378 00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:53,810 concerned about the regulation of speech 379 00:12:59,260 --> 00:12:56,390 happening on YouTube and on Facebook and 380 00:13:01,480 --> 00:12:59,270 so on and you got a couple issues one is 381 00:13:03,490 --> 00:13:01,490 to what extent them being in such a 382 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:03,500 dominant position effects that the other 383 00:13:08,590 --> 00:13:06,890 is just how we look at them because from 384 00:13:10,690 --> 00:13:08,600 my standpoint I'd like to look at them 385 00:13:13,630 --> 00:13:10,700 as simply a platform where people can 386 00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:13,640 express their views and Facebook is not 387 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:16,160 saying that we support this view or that 388 00:13:22,590 --> 00:13:18,970 we've vetted what this person is saying 389 00:13:23,650 --> 00:13:22,600 same with YouTube so if for instance 390 00:13:28,990 --> 00:13:23,660 someone 391 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:29,000 then in my opinion the way it should be 392 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:31,310 is that that person can be sued for 393 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:32,930 defamation but I'm not gonna hold 394 00:13:38,620 --> 00:13:35,210 facebook responsible for it because that 395 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:38,630 would put them in a stream Lee powerful 396 00:13:44,590 --> 00:13:41,570 position of regulating all speech on 397 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:44,600 Facebook or Google Reb regulating all 398 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:47,690 speech on YouTube which I don't think we 399 00:13:52,030 --> 00:13:49,370 want private entities regulating speech 400 00:13:54,220 --> 00:13:52,040 like that so I would like to see them be 401 00:13:57,460 --> 00:13:54,230 seen as simply a platform to express 402 00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,470 your views and that they that they have 403 00:14:01,600 --> 00:13:59,120 no responsibility for what's actually 404 00:14:02,770 --> 00:14:01,610 posted on there so like you you want 405 00:14:04,450 --> 00:14:02,780 them treated like a telephone network 406 00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:04,460 basically so it's like if I if you have 407 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:06,320 you know you and I are talking on the 408 00:14:09,490 --> 00:14:08,090 phone and we're saying some something 409 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:09,500 we're engaged in some sort of criminal 410 00:14:14,050 --> 00:14:12,410 conspiracy the telephone network is not 411 00:14:16,570 --> 00:14:14,060 responsible for that criminal conspiracy 412 00:14:18,190 --> 00:14:16,580 right like we're responsible for it 413 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:18,200 because we're the ones talking is that 414 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:21,170 would that be fair actually yeah I mean 415 00:14:24,430 --> 00:14:22,490 I guess the the slight difference there 416 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:24,440 is on YouTube obviously it's broadcast 417 00:14:28,090 --> 00:14:26,090 to multiple people as opposed to a 418 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:28,100 conversation bebe between just two 419 00:14:33,580 --> 00:14:31,310 people but still yes i I don't want to 420 00:14:35,260 --> 00:14:33,590 hold facebook responsible for things 421 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:35,270 that people post on there I want to see 422 00:14:38,770 --> 00:14:37,010 it as simply a platform and if somebody 423 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:38,780 posts something on there that is 424 00:14:42,730 --> 00:14:41,570 defamatory or incorrect they'll be 425 00:14:44,950 --> 00:14:42,740 called out on it and could be sued for 426 00:14:47,050 --> 00:14:44,960 it right so so another way to put it 427 00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:47,060 like let's say that you know I do 428 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:49,550 something with a with an electric 429 00:14:53,230 --> 00:14:52,010 implement that's harmful you're not 430 00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:53,240 gonna hold the electric company 431 00:14:56,590 --> 00:14:55,070 responsible for that right or the 432 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:56,600 company that sold batteries like they're 433 00:15:00,250 --> 00:14:58,010 not responsible for it right you're 434 00:15:03,310 --> 00:15:00,260 saying there's a some sort of distance 435 00:15:05,410 --> 00:15:03,320 from yeah and I generally agree with 436 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:05,420 that but what I would say is that the 437 00:15:10,210 --> 00:15:07,310 reason that I think it's problematic now 438 00:15:12,010 --> 00:15:10,220 has to do with market structure so I 439 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:12,020 don't have a problem with Google and 440 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:14,810 Facebook being neutral platforms and not 441 00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:16,910 holding them accountable for whatever 442 00:15:20,830 --> 00:15:18,620 people say on their on those platforms 443 00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:20,840 but they're not neutral platforms 444 00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:23,260 because they are profiting from 445 00:15:29,650 --> 00:15:27,440 advertising off of that YouTube video or 446 00:15:31,570 --> 00:15:29,660 off of what you say on Facebook so it's 447 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:31,580 like I think we should regulate 448 00:15:36,130 --> 00:15:33,410 industries based on how they make their 449 00:15:37,150 --> 00:15:36,140 money and so I think Facebook and Google 450 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:37,160 should have to choose 451 00:15:40,540 --> 00:15:38,570 between whether they're going to be 452 00:15:41,470 --> 00:15:40,550 advertising companies which is what they 453 00:15:44,110 --> 00:15:41,480 are they make a lot of money from 454 00:15:46,210 --> 00:15:44,120 advertising and then you know have 455 00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:46,220 certain responsibility for the content 456 00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:48,560 that they make money off of or whether 457 00:15:52,390 --> 00:15:50,870 they should be with you know platforms 458 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:52,400 like kind of neutral communication 459 00:15:56,650 --> 00:15:54,650 networks and be more like the phone 460 00:15:59,920 --> 00:15:56,660 company that charges you know that 461 00:16:01,690 --> 00:15:59,930 charges the the users or the electric 462 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:01,700 company that charges the users directly 463 00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:04,010 for the service if you say if you broke 464 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:05,600 out the advertising and said okay we're 465 00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:07,850 not gonna allow Facebook or YouTube to 466 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:09,980 make money off of advertising they're 467 00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:12,410 gonna be left with having to charge the 468 00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:13,910 consumer that's right 469 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:16,190 1099 a month from my Facebook account 470 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:19,610 that's right and consumers aren't going 471 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:21,770 to be real thrilled about that they like 472 00:16:25,510 --> 00:16:23,090 the fact that Facebook and YouTube are 473 00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:25,520 free right now well I mean you know look 474 00:16:30,370 --> 00:16:28,310 we've we've had economies where people 475 00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:30,380 buy goods and services for you know 476 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:32,720 thousand years right I mean so it's like 477 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:36,290 I'm sorry but but when I sit down and 478 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:38,330 it's 8:00 at night on a Saturday or 479 00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:39,710 something and I like say oh I'll just 480 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:41,060 check out this you know one YouTube 481 00:16:45,010 --> 00:16:42,730 video and then it's like an hour later 482 00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:45,020 and I'm like ah shoot you know my whole 483 00:16:48,430 --> 00:16:47,060 night is kind of like ruined or you know 484 00:16:50,950 --> 00:16:48,440 that's that's because I'm being 485 00:16:52,750 --> 00:16:50,960 manipulated and controlled by YouTube if 486 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:52,760 I paint and that's because the way that 487 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:54,770 YouTube makes money is they they 488 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:56,450 addicting and then they sell my 489 00:17:00,670 --> 00:16:58,490 attention to advertisers so so I'm 490 00:17:02,350 --> 00:17:00,680 paying by being addicted and manipulated 491 00:17:03,550 --> 00:17:02,360 and controlled and I think people don't 492 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:03,560 like to pay for things but they also 493 00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:04,610 don't like to be addicted and 494 00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:06,680 manipulated and controlled so if I were 495 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:08,990 paying directly for the social media 496 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:13,010 services or for the the video that I was 497 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:16,130 getting then I wouldn't you know then I 498 00:17:19,929 --> 00:17:17,930 I could decide I would make a deliberate 499 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:19,939 decision yes I want to pay to do this 500 00:17:24,250 --> 00:17:21,800 instead of having you know paying with 501 00:17:25,809 --> 00:17:24,260 my time and and paying by being a tick 502 00:17:27,100 --> 00:17:25,819 youlet and addicted and manipulated and 503 00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:27,110 controlled so I think that's a more a 504 00:17:30,910 --> 00:17:29,240 healthier more fair way of doing things 505 00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:30,920 well and what we are seeing a lot of 506 00:17:36,610 --> 00:17:33,710 companies do ill say that oh if you 507 00:17:38,980 --> 00:17:36,620 become a member then you don't have to 508 00:17:40,420 --> 00:17:38,990 you have no advertising yeah well let me 509 00:17:43,330 --> 00:17:40,430 let me give you an alternative right 510 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:43,340 I'll give you so so in two thousand five 511 00:17:47,770 --> 00:17:44,930 or six before Google and Facebook 512 00:17:49,030 --> 00:17:47,780 dominated you had an open web I get lots 513 00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:49,040 of different websites and you didn't 514 00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:50,240 have this problem of addiction and 515 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:51,140 control that manipulation 516 00:17:54,190 --> 00:17:52,730 because it wasn't centralized we have a 517 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:54,200 situation like that today 518 00:17:59,290 --> 00:17:57,170 it's called podcasting right podcasting 519 00:18:01,930 --> 00:17:59,300 you know you you have a relationship 520 00:18:03,580 --> 00:18:01,940 with your listeners you also have you 521 00:18:05,230 --> 00:18:03,590 know you there are advertisers that if 522 00:18:06,550 --> 00:18:05,240 you build enough of an audience they 523 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:06,560 will advertise on you or you could ask 524 00:18:12,820 --> 00:18:09,650 for subscriptions you put your out here 525 00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:12,830 to your podcast up on a using a public 526 00:18:17,770 --> 00:18:16,340 standard called RSS there's a lot of 527 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:17,780 different ways to distribute a podcast 528 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:19,970 so it's not vertically integrated they 529 00:18:24,610 --> 00:18:22,450 don't integrate be necessarily 530 00:18:26,530 --> 00:18:24,620 advertising with the podcast production 531 00:18:29,290 --> 00:18:26,540 and distribution and there isn't market 532 00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:29,300 power at any layer of that supply chain 533 00:18:33,850 --> 00:18:31,190 and so we don't have to deal with the 534 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:33,860 censorship problem because you you know 535 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:35,930 you are used somebody who has control 536 00:18:39,070 --> 00:18:37,370 over your voice and your audience has 537 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:39,080 control over what they listen to well 538 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:40,730 the problem with Google and Facebook is 539 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:43,730 they become these middlemen where they 540 00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:45,650 are dominant gatekeepers over speech 541 00:18:48,730 --> 00:18:47,300 through their communication networks 542 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:48,740 that they own and then they vertically 543 00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:49,610 integrate this called vertical 544 00:18:53,950 --> 00:18:51,590 integration into advertising so they 545 00:18:56,110 --> 00:18:53,960 control the financing of everyone online 546 00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:56,120 and like then we get into these weird 547 00:18:58,450 --> 00:18:57,440 arguments about the censorship because 548 00:19:00,580 --> 00:18:58,460 they're like oh now they're these 549 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:00,590 gatekeepers and they control all the 550 00:19:03,790 --> 00:19:02,450 advertising let's figure out how to best 551 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:03,800 censor should they censor this way 552 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:04,970 should they censor that way it should 553 00:19:08,290 --> 00:19:06,410 they not censor at all and the whole 554 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:08,300 point here of thinking about monopoly 555 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:11,330 power is to say in fact the problem 556 00:19:16,090 --> 00:19:14,690 isn't the fact that they are censoring 557 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:16,100 or not the problem is that they are 558 00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:17,810 these dominant gatekeepers in the first 559 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,760 place so we shouldn't have to choose 560 00:19:22,690 --> 00:19:21,200 between private censors and public 561 00:19:24,490 --> 00:19:22,700 censors we shouldn't have censorship at 562 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:24,500 all and we have another model it worked 563 00:19:27,370 --> 00:19:25,850 in the mid-2000s when they weren't 564 00:19:29,470 --> 00:19:27,380 controlling the web and it works today 565 00:19:32,140 --> 00:19:29,480 in podcasting so we do know how to 566 00:19:34,270 --> 00:19:32,150 actually do this and it is about market 567 00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:34,280 structure but we probably will have 568 00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:36,110 vertol vertical integration in 569 00:19:41,380 --> 00:19:39,350 podcasting soon everything seems to head 570 00:19:43,870 --> 00:19:41,390 in that direction so I do it but it's 571 00:19:45,670 --> 00:19:43,880 not it's not natural though so this is a 572 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:45,680 result of policy choices so this is in 573 00:19:50,020 --> 00:19:47,330 Goliath you know what I talked about in 574 00:19:52,210 --> 00:19:50,030 Goliath is about how we used to regulate 575 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:52,220 me a very aggressively through the 576 00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:53,810 Federal Communications Commission the 577 00:19:57,070 --> 00:19:55,280 Federal Trade Commission the Department 578 00:19:59,050 --> 00:19:57,080 of Justice Antitrust Division and a 579 00:20:01,090 --> 00:19:59,060 whole series of regulatory agencies 580 00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:01,100 where we said you know we are going to 581 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:03,590 prevent concentration of power and we're 582 00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:04,450 going to have it 583 00:20:08,010 --> 00:20:06,100 city of media sources although we going 584 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:08,020 back to the post office in the 1790s and 585 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:09,850 we stopped doing that in the 80s because 586 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:11,890 of these really radical philosophical 587 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:13,480 change where we said to monopoly power 588 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:15,970 is not a big deal right and as a result 589 00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:18,370 we have you know when when the internet 590 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:21,070 emerged and Microsoft tried to they 591 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:22,690 tried to monopolize it and that less or 592 00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:24,130 the last gasp of the old order was the 593 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:25,840 Microsoft case and you saw Google and 594 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:27,850 Facebook roll everything up in the in 595 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:30,730 the from 2004 to 2014 they bought kind 596 00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,010 of all their competitors and yeah it's 597 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:34,960 really centralized space but that wasn't 598 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:36,850 inevitable it was because we changed 599 00:20:40,260 --> 00:20:38,530 merger law is because we didn't regulate 600 00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:40,270 data it was just a whole story allowed 601 00:20:43,230 --> 00:20:41,620 them to regulate data there's just a 602 00:20:45,150 --> 00:20:43,240 whole series of policy choices and now 603 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:45,160 Spotify is coming in and trying to do 604 00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:48,910 the same thing to to podcasting and you 605 00:20:52,620 --> 00:20:50,590 know we can stop it the Federal Trade 606 00:20:56,010 --> 00:20:52,630 Commission can stop their merger roll-up 607 00:20:57,900 --> 00:20:56,020 we can protect this vibrant open 608 00:20:59,520 --> 00:20:57,910 communication space it's not inevitable 609 00:21:01,740 --> 00:20:59,530 right these are people that are just 610 00:21:03,330 --> 00:21:01,750 doing it and they're doing it because we 611 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:03,340 we don't enforce laws against the 612 00:21:07,650 --> 00:21:06,310 illegal mergers anymore we should how do 613 00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:07,660 you feel about the fact that we're in 614 00:21:14,730 --> 00:21:11,500 such a global economy today versus where 615 00:21:16,380 --> 00:21:14,740 we were I mean any you could say 10 616 00:21:18,270 --> 00:21:16,390 years ago 20 years or 30 years ago it's 617 00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:18,280 becoming more and more global economy so 618 00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:19,990 our companies US companies are competing 619 00:21:27,570 --> 00:21:23,590 against companies in other countries we 620 00:21:29,220 --> 00:21:27,580 want the u.s. to be successful so by 621 00:21:30,270 --> 00:21:29,230 hamstringing air owned companies through 622 00:21:32,490 --> 00:21:30,280 some of the things that you're proposing 623 00:21:34,550 --> 00:21:32,500 don't we make them less competitive on 624 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:34,560 the global scale well you know it's it 625 00:21:38,310 --> 00:21:37,090 so we've had trade we've had global 626 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:38,320 trade for hundreds of years 627 00:21:42,810 --> 00:21:41,170 and we had this debate in the during the 628 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:42,820 election of 1912 in fact so Teddy 629 00:21:46,590 --> 00:21:45,010 Roosevelt believed that we needed what 630 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:46,600 we're called national champions right 631 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:48,370 monopolies of our own to compete against 632 00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:51,730 monopolies abroad and and we're having 633 00:21:56,790 --> 00:21:54,880 this debate again so just one base it's 634 00:21:58,890 --> 00:21:56,800 not new this is not you know the 635 00:22:01,260 --> 00:21:58,900 globalization our globalization policy 636 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:01,270 is from 1995 onward have been different 637 00:22:05,910 --> 00:22:02,650 than they used to be but we had a lot of 638 00:22:07,380 --> 00:22:05,920 global trade before 1995 yeah it is 639 00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,390 yeah it's larger I mean don't you the 640 00:22:12,210 --> 00:22:09,760 access to foreign markets are at their 641 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:12,220 highest ever would you say well they're 642 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:14,530 actually just before World War one they 643 00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:16,690 were about as high as they are today 644 00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:18,100 so it the 645 00:22:21,690 --> 00:22:20,230 integration global integration was you 646 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:21,700 know this is sort of a lot of the same 647 00:22:25,530 --> 00:22:23,370 arguments actually saying oh you know 648 00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:25,540 economic integration brings peace that 649 00:22:30,810 --> 00:22:27,520 was a pre-world War one notion and it 650 00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:30,820 didn't um but uh so so it's not quite 651 00:22:32,790 --> 00:22:31,990 but there are there are some some 652 00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:32,800 differences 653 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:34,240 I don't think we've ever seen it kind of 654 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:35,530 a global company like Google or Facebook 655 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:38,770 before but but but but generally 656 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:45,250 speaking American sort of we've always 657 00:22:53,490 --> 00:22:48,450 been competitive in global markets 658 00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:53,500 because we have prioritized quality 659 00:22:57,420 --> 00:22:55,510 production and management not because 660 00:22:59,040 --> 00:22:57,430 we've protected our market power in fact 661 00:23:00,720 --> 00:22:59,050 in the 1970s when they had the same 662 00:23:02,670 --> 00:23:00,730 argument you know were like how dare you 663 00:23:04,410 --> 00:23:02,680 go after IBM and and AT&T 664 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:04,420 these are these national champions that 665 00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:06,970 we need to protect our electronics and 666 00:23:10,020 --> 00:23:08,320 computer industry and meanwhile Japan 667 00:23:11,970 --> 00:23:10,030 with MIDI is supporting their computer 668 00:23:13,710 --> 00:23:11,980 industry well we brought antitrust cases 669 00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:13,720 against IBM we brought antitrust cases 670 00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:17,200 against AT&T and the consequence of both 671 00:23:24,060 --> 00:23:21,700 was the explosion of of Intel and 672 00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:24,070 Microsoft and and Silicon Valley and the 673 00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:26,200 Japanese sort of collapsed in terms of 674 00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:28,480 their computing industries so by 675 00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:30,700 liberating the energies of the people 676 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:33,190 which we do here we create more 677 00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:36,010 competitiveness and we have since the 678 00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:38,950 1990s like concentrated power so the 679 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:40,510 number of public companies has dropped 680 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:43,570 in in half since the mid-1990s and our 681 00:23:46,830 --> 00:23:44,650 population is bigger 682 00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:46,840 we've also our companies are three times 683 00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:48,520 larger than they used to be and older 684 00:23:52,260 --> 00:23:50,140 so there's a lot more dominant market 685 00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:52,270 power in that time period at the same 686 00:23:58,260 --> 00:23:54,910 time productivity has basically not 687 00:24:01,500 --> 00:23:58,270 grown and we have lost 688 00:24:04,020 --> 00:24:01,510 we have lost market share in terms of 689 00:24:06,450 --> 00:24:04,030 our global our global competitive 690 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:06,460 position so so if it were true that 691 00:24:11,250 --> 00:24:08,650 national champions actually improved 692 00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:11,260 American competitiveness we we we would 693 00:24:16,020 --> 00:24:13,480 not have we would not have slipped so 694 00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:16,030 far as we have since the 1990s and I'll 695 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:17,350 just finish by saying this has always 696 00:24:22,050 --> 00:24:20,770 been true in 1901 JP Morgan rolled up 697 00:24:24,060 --> 00:24:22,060 about a hundred and eighty different 698 00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:24,070 iron and steel companies in our first 699 00:24:27,620 --> 00:24:25,900 billion dollar company was US Steel and 700 00:24:31,769 --> 00:24:27,630 from the moment the document was signed 701 00:24:34,109 --> 00:24:31,779 forming US Steel US Steel lost share 702 00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:34,119 in globally in every single major 703 00:24:40,589 --> 00:24:36,580 category of steel products because it 704 00:24:43,739 --> 00:24:40,599 was simply too big and badly managed so 705 00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:43,749 we have the by far the largest economy 706 00:24:47,849 --> 00:24:45,460 in the world we have the most thriving 707 00:24:51,719 --> 00:24:47,859 economy at this particular moment I 708 00:24:54,239 --> 00:24:51,729 believe roughly speaking so it makes it 709 00:24:57,209 --> 00:24:54,249 a tough argument to say that we need to 710 00:25:00,209 --> 00:24:57,219 change things at this point so what is 711 00:25:03,239 --> 00:25:00,219 it that you fear right now if we don't 712 00:25:06,029 --> 00:25:03,249 change things when it comes to the huge 713 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:06,039 manat I think there's a sort of like you 714 00:25:12,329 --> 00:25:09,369 know I mean don't I wouldn't confuse GDP 715 00:25:15,509 --> 00:25:12,339 growth with having a stable and 716 00:25:18,209 --> 00:25:15,519 successful and prosperous economy as I 717 00:25:19,739 --> 00:25:18,219 mentioned before you know Boeing Boeing 718 00:25:22,769 --> 00:25:19,749 is in crisis and that is a serious 719 00:25:24,989 --> 00:25:22,779 problem for us because Boeing is our 720 00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,999 number one exporter I want to see the 721 00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:26,559 National Champion collapsing that's a 722 00:25:32,369 --> 00:25:30,820 good example of one and GE is having you 723 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:32,379 know being accused of accounting fraud 724 00:25:36,419 --> 00:25:34,210 this is like the crown jewel of of 725 00:25:39,719 --> 00:25:36,429 corporate America and is having serious 726 00:25:41,339 --> 00:25:39,729 serious problems I look at big Chuck and 727 00:25:42,810 --> 00:25:41,349 I think that they look a lot they look a 728 00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:42,820 lot to me like Ford and General Motors 729 00:25:47,899 --> 00:25:45,039 in the 1960s which was riding on top of 730 00:25:51,539 --> 00:25:47,909 the world seemingly amazing but 731 00:25:53,159 --> 00:25:51,549 underneath the hood deteriorating until 732 00:25:54,479 --> 00:25:53,169 the 1970s when they actually faced real 733 00:25:55,979 --> 00:25:54,489 competition from the Japanese and the 734 00:25:57,629 --> 00:25:55,989 Germans they started getting killed 735 00:25:58,079 --> 00:25:57,639 because their cars were terrible you see 736 00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:58,089 that already 737 00:26:02,310 --> 00:25:59,919 Facebook's products are terrible and 738 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:02,320 like tik-tok came in and like a DAP 739 00:26:05,909 --> 00:26:04,330 share because Facebook's don't innovate 740 00:26:08,489 --> 00:26:05,919 they're innovating around tax shelters 741 00:26:10,229 --> 00:26:08,499 and getting people to click on ads so 742 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:10,239 you're seeing really serious problem not 743 00:26:15,659 --> 00:26:11,710 to mention that lifespans are declining 744 00:26:18,930 --> 00:26:15,669 so you have you know opioids is 745 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:18,940 definitely a monopoly problem there and 746 00:26:24,889 --> 00:26:21,460 you have as I mentioned before supply 747 00:26:27,869 --> 00:26:24,899 shortages of key products like like 748 00:26:29,459 --> 00:26:27,879 medicine eighty percent of our chemical 749 00:26:33,869 --> 00:26:29,469 api's for pharmaceuticals is made in 750 00:26:35,789 --> 00:26:33,879 China as well as as well as electronics 751 00:26:37,259 --> 00:26:35,799 if try to stay shut for another month or 752 00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:37,269 two we're gonna start seeing serious 753 00:26:40,769 --> 00:26:39,070 shutdowns of automotive factories 754 00:26:44,369 --> 00:26:40,779 electronics factories things like that 755 00:26:45,149 --> 00:26:44,379 we are in crisis right now it just it's 756 00:26:47,099 --> 00:26:45,159 like kind of like 757 00:26:48,479 --> 00:26:47,109 like Wiley coyote and we run off the 758 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:48,489 cliff and we just haven't looked down 759 00:26:52,649 --> 00:26:50,710 yet it's really scary if you peek under 760 00:26:54,779 --> 00:26:52,659 the hood what what you'll actually find 761 00:26:56,700 --> 00:26:54,789 in the American economy okay I have to 762 00:27:00,659 --> 00:26:56,710 ask you to defend how is it that you're 763 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:00,669 claiming that monopolies in America is 764 00:27:04,769 --> 00:27:03,460 causing a reduction in life span I have 765 00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:04,779 a particular interest in this because I 766 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:06,720 just wrote a piece perfect for Fox News 767 00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,129 about the reduction in life span and 768 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:11,440 what I believe is the cause of it which 769 00:27:16,409 --> 00:27:13,090 I'll share with you how do you think 770 00:27:18,749 --> 00:27:16,419 what do you think the causes I well what 771 00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:18,759 we do know is that the lifespan is being 772 00:27:23,639 --> 00:27:21,070 reduced due to what they call deaths of 773 00:27:27,690 --> 00:27:23,649 despair that is not cute so it's not 774 00:27:28,889 --> 00:27:27,700 that people used to live till 80 and now 775 00:27:31,619 --> 00:27:28,899 they're died more sighs oh no it's 776 00:27:32,969 --> 00:27:31,629 deaths in the 20s and 30s suicide quick 777 00:27:34,649 --> 00:27:32,979 overdoses that side or a desolate 778 00:27:36,869 --> 00:27:34,659 despair that's bringing down the number 779 00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:36,879 so then the question is well why do we 780 00:27:41,609 --> 00:27:39,279 have that we've got as they said 781 00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:41,619 thriving economy things all seem to be 782 00:27:46,589 --> 00:27:44,289 doing pretty well why the heck do we 783 00:27:49,979 --> 00:27:46,599 have all these deaths of despair in 784 00:27:51,989 --> 00:27:49,989 America of all places and I argue that 785 00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:51,999 it is the breakdown of the nuclear 786 00:27:57,109 --> 00:27:53,830 family if you look at the statistics of 787 00:28:00,659 --> 00:27:57,119 children being raised in broken homes 788 00:28:05,129 --> 00:28:00,669 it's way higher than it was decades ago 789 00:28:07,469 --> 00:28:05,139 and there's lots of mental you know 790 00:28:09,539 --> 00:28:07,479 traumas etcetera that happened in those 791 00:28:12,539 --> 00:28:09,549 type of homes and which leads to mental 792 00:28:14,419 --> 00:28:12,549 illness drug addiction etc etc so if you 793 00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:14,429 see if you watch the charts on that 794 00:28:20,729 --> 00:28:17,919 deaths of despair is going up the same 795 00:28:22,889 --> 00:28:20,739 percentage roughly speaking as children 796 00:28:24,479 --> 00:28:22,899 being raised in broken homes so can I 797 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:24,489 prove that no but does it seem to make a 798 00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,609 lot of sense to me yes yeah no I agree 799 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:29,440 with that I think that's right and um 800 00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:31,450 you know but but I also think that there 801 00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:33,190 are you know like Tucker Carlson does a 802 00:28:36,330 --> 00:28:35,049 lot of segments on this and one of the 803 00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:36,340 things that he points out is you know 804 00:28:40,469 --> 00:28:38,559 when you have you know I think he did a 805 00:28:41,789 --> 00:28:40,479 story on Paul singer hedge fund manager 806 00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:41,799 who went into the Brassica town 807 00:28:48,239 --> 00:28:44,590 basically bought up their main kind of 808 00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:48,249 industry which was a sports sportswear 809 00:28:52,859 --> 00:28:51,609 store and then got you know merged it 810 00:28:55,079 --> 00:28:52,869 with someone else and sort of destroyed 811 00:28:56,669 --> 00:28:55,089 the town right and what you find is that 812 00:28:58,740 --> 00:28:56,679 and then that what happens is when you 813 00:29:01,160 --> 00:28:58,750 destroy the 814 00:29:05,130 --> 00:29:01,170 main livelihood for people in an area 815 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:05,140 factory or town or whatever what ends up 816 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:06,730 happening is like people lose their 817 00:29:11,430 --> 00:29:08,170 economic livelihood the families fall 818 00:29:13,530 --> 00:29:11,440 apart the church the home the sort of 819 00:29:17,370 --> 00:29:13,540 foundation of of what is important in 820 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:17,380 America falls apart and the the desk of 821 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:18,970 the spare you know what right now we 822 00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:20,890 have a severe serious alcohol addiction 823 00:29:25,380 --> 00:29:22,960 problem we have an opioid addiction 824 00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,390 problem we have a series of addiction 825 00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:27,760 problems all of which are caused in some 826 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:29,830 part by concentration of power in 827 00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:31,810 alcohol industry you've got seen a 828 00:29:38,460 --> 00:29:36,940 dramatic role of of beer and alcohol you 829 00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:38,470 see why would that lead to more 830 00:29:44,370 --> 00:29:41,710 alcoholism the river lovely because you 831 00:29:47,540 --> 00:29:44,380 know if you have a chain like total wine 832 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:47,550 right which is a chain a chain store or 833 00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:50,050 their best customers are alcoholics and 834 00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:53,980 so they lobby to reduce kind of blue law 835 00:29:57,540 --> 00:29:55,510 type of arrangements which are designed 836 00:29:59,460 --> 00:29:57,550 to protect local communities like after 837 00:30:00,780 --> 00:29:59,470 we got rid of prohibition one of the 838 00:30:02,130 --> 00:30:00,790 rules that was put in place in the 839 00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:02,140 Constitution was that you will have 840 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:06,760 local control over alcohol markets and 841 00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:08,170 you have a three-tiered distribution 842 00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:10,360 system so no one could roll them up 843 00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:12,190 because if you have a roll up then all 844 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:13,900 of a sudden an alcohol dealers gonna try 845 00:30:17,460 --> 00:30:15,610 to get everyone addicted so they can 846 00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,470 continue to sell more alcohol and you've 847 00:30:20,910 --> 00:30:19,600 seen that happen and I and that you saw 848 00:30:22,890 --> 00:30:20,920 this in England too like when when 849 00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:22,900 supermarkets could couldn't sell a lot 850 00:30:26,460 --> 00:30:25,120 more alcohol and you know they ended up 851 00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:26,470 selling a lot more cheap alcohol and 852 00:30:30,510 --> 00:30:27,910 alcoholism cases spiked and that's 853 00:30:36,690 --> 00:30:30,520 happening here you also saw mergers in 854 00:30:39,380 --> 00:30:36,700 in tobacco so tobacco is is really bad 855 00:30:42,180 --> 00:30:39,390 in particularly in certain communities 856 00:30:45,870 --> 00:30:42,190 but then you have Joule and and the sort 857 00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:45,880 of the vaping thing like opioids he'll 858 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:47,350 be so opioids I mean that's just a 859 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:49,210 patent issue right that that is both 860 00:30:53,460 --> 00:30:50,890 patents and that is just straight-up 861 00:30:56,130 --> 00:30:53,470 bribery of doctors and a hole in a 862 00:30:57,300 --> 00:30:56,140 medical system that was enabled by you 863 00:31:00,180 --> 00:30:57,310 know the clinton ministration and then 864 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:00,190 the bush the bush administration how is 865 00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:02,770 that related to monopolies because i did 866 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:03,910 want to come back to pharmaceuticals 867 00:31:07,410 --> 00:31:04,930 you've mentioned pharmaceuticals a 868 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:07,420 couple times but seems like we have lots 869 00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:08,770 of pharmaceutical company well okay so 870 00:31:15,210 --> 00:31:12,080 so so the supply chain 871 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:15,220 or pharmaceuticals right one of the key 872 00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:17,570 kind of actors in that supply chain is 873 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:19,100 called a pharmaceutical Benefits Manager 874 00:31:21,970 --> 00:31:20,690 right and there are these are other 875 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:21,980 companies that they basically keep a 876 00:31:27,159 --> 00:31:25,370 giant list of of medicine and prices for 877 00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:27,169 those medicines and then they go to they 878 00:31:29,950 --> 00:31:28,640 go to it's called a formulary and they 879 00:31:32,889 --> 00:31:29,960 go to insurance companies and they say 880 00:31:35,649 --> 00:31:32,899 hey we can we can kind of manage all 881 00:31:37,330 --> 00:31:35,659 your your prices and all the medicines 882 00:31:38,740 --> 00:31:37,340 that your customers might need and then 883 00:31:40,419 --> 00:31:38,750 we'll talk we'll talk to drugstores and 884 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:40,429 make sure and do all the billing and 885 00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:41,690 pricing that's kind of like a weird 886 00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:43,929 little part of the american medical 887 00:31:49,629 --> 00:31:46,880 system will they get kickbacks from 888 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:49,639 companies that make drugs to sell more 889 00:31:53,289 --> 00:31:51,110 drugs and one of the companies they got 890 00:31:55,450 --> 00:31:53,299 kickbacks from was Purdue Purdue Pharma 891 00:31:57,610 --> 00:31:55,460 and Purdue makes oxycontin so West 892 00:31:59,139 --> 00:31:57,620 Virginia in the early 2000s the West 893 00:32:02,139 --> 00:31:59,149 Virginia and I think the governor the 894 00:32:04,330 --> 00:32:02,149 government had a insurance company or 895 00:32:05,889 --> 00:32:04,340 insurance product for its for its 896 00:32:07,330 --> 00:32:05,899 employees and they said hey we're 897 00:32:09,159 --> 00:32:07,340 starting to see a bunch of overdoses of 898 00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:09,169 this with this thing called oxycontin so 899 00:32:13,629 --> 00:32:11,360 they went to their PBM and they said hey 900 00:32:16,029 --> 00:32:13,639 can you stop recommending so much 901 00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:16,039 oxycontin and their PBM fought them on 902 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:17,600 it and they had to sue and it took years 903 00:32:20,860 --> 00:32:19,850 to get them to stop and the reason as it 904 00:32:22,899 --> 00:32:20,870 turns out is they were getting a 905 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:22,909 kickback from Purdue Pharma and so you 906 00:32:26,889 --> 00:32:24,710 see you know where you have concentrated 907 00:32:28,750 --> 00:32:26,899 supply chains these you know one of the 908 00:32:30,970 --> 00:32:28,760 ways that they control those that they 909 00:32:33,549 --> 00:32:30,980 make money is through through kickbacks 910 00:32:34,750 --> 00:32:33,559 so that's what you're seeing and but 911 00:32:38,169 --> 00:32:34,760 you're do you smaller 912 00:32:41,230 --> 00:32:38,179 I mean if there were if there were more 913 00:32:43,509 --> 00:32:41,240 PBMs right or if the if the PBM were not 914 00:32:44,769 --> 00:32:43,519 allowed to take kickbacks then West 915 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:44,779 Virginia could have just moved to a 916 00:32:48,430 --> 00:32:46,850 different PBM right but there but there 917 00:32:50,919 --> 00:32:48,440 was just there's there's only three PBMs 918 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:50,929 now so that's that's kind of an easy or 919 00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:52,130 you know and there's lots of ways to 920 00:32:58,330 --> 00:32:55,580 roll up power one of them is to allow is 921 00:32:59,980 --> 00:32:58,340 to allow kickbacks you know in an 922 00:33:02,049 --> 00:32:59,990 industry if you just said well you have 923 00:33:03,850 --> 00:33:02,059 to you have to pay the PBM directly and 924 00:33:05,169 --> 00:33:03,860 OPM is not allowed to take kickbacks 925 00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:05,179 they have to just do straight-up 926 00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:07,039 transparent pricing then you wouldn't 927 00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:08,480 have had that problem and you you know 928 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:09,590 that that would be a different way to 929 00:33:13,269 --> 00:33:11,210 address the monopolization problem so 930 00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:13,279 that's to your point of is it a is it a 931 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:14,960 bad is it a bad actor is it just a 932 00:33:17,799 --> 00:33:16,250 monopoly you can there's a whole bunch 933 00:33:19,810 --> 00:33:17,809 of pricing stuff that you can do to it 934 00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:19,820 to get rid of complex of interest that's 935 00:33:24,340 --> 00:33:21,470 the Google Facebook conflict interest 936 00:33:25,940 --> 00:33:24,350 problem so that's an example like trying 937 00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:25,950 to addicting 938 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:28,049 or not when there are not rules that are 939 00:33:31,159 --> 00:33:29,850 forcing them to avoid conflicts of 940 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:31,169 interest and when they have market power 941 00:33:34,730 --> 00:33:33,090 if they are selling an addictive 942 00:33:36,409 --> 00:33:34,740 substance they will be able to sell more 943 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:36,419 of that addictive substance and that 944 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:38,970 helps increase deaths of despair and 945 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:41,370 destroy the family let's talk about 946 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:42,570 Starbucks I have a feeling you don't 947 00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:44,850 like them you know I actually haven't 948 00:33:49,850 --> 00:33:46,500 studied Starbucks that much so I'm not 949 00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:49,860 gonna like I'm not I you know I my guess 950 00:33:53,149 --> 00:33:51,120 is that what they really where they 951 00:33:55,490 --> 00:33:53,159 exploit monopoly power is on the coffee 952 00:33:58,730 --> 00:33:55,500 buying side but I'm not I'm not sure 953 00:34:00,730 --> 00:33:58,740 so aren't you kind of generally negative 954 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:00,740 about chains 955 00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:03,570 generally speaking I I think local 956 00:34:07,310 --> 00:34:05,519 stores are are healthier for our 957 00:34:10,490 --> 00:34:07,320 communities so just give you an example 958 00:34:11,839 --> 00:34:10,500 like I was at a bar in New York a couple 959 00:34:13,579 --> 00:34:11,849 years ago when I was talking to the 960 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:13,589 bartender and he was like oh here's a 961 00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:15,770 book I wrote I used to be an addict and 962 00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:18,510 then I came to this bar and and I got a 963 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:20,159 job and I kept screwing up and she kept 964 00:34:25,069 --> 00:34:22,649 hiring me finally like I cleaned myself 965 00:34:27,050 --> 00:34:25,079 up and I was like wow that's that's just 966 00:34:27,950 --> 00:34:27,060 an entrepreneur that like wanted to take 967 00:34:31,700 --> 00:34:27,960 care of this guy 968 00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:31,710 and and and there's no way that would 969 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:33,240 have happened with a chain store they 970 00:34:36,139 --> 00:34:34,530 just wouldn't you want to have that and 971 00:34:37,579 --> 00:34:36,149 like that's true with like drug stores 972 00:34:40,309 --> 00:34:37,589 you know local drug stores in North 973 00:34:41,899 --> 00:34:40,319 Dakota are just like much better they 974 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:41,909 are they're you know they're much nice 975 00:34:46,369 --> 00:34:43,530 for the customers their products are 976 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:46,379 cheaper and and it's not because like 977 00:34:49,129 --> 00:34:47,609 people that work at chain stores are bad 978 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:49,139 or anything it's just that that you 979 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:50,970 don't have those kinds of community 980 00:34:54,109 --> 00:34:52,530 relationships so I think communities 981 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:54,119 need to be anchored with community 982 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:55,530 institutions I think that's another 983 00:34:59,329 --> 00:34:58,050 reason we have deaths of despair because 984 00:35:01,130 --> 00:34:59,339 those community you know the Main Street 985 00:35:03,770 --> 00:35:01,140 has been ripped out and replaced by 986 00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:03,780 dollar stores or Walmart so I am 987 00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:05,280 negative on chain stores I don't think 988 00:35:07,940 --> 00:35:06,630 you should get rid of a chain stores but 989 00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:07,950 I think chain stores have a whole bunch 990 00:35:12,380 --> 00:35:10,079 of unfair competitive advantages they 991 00:35:14,690 --> 00:35:12,390 have superior bargaining power they get 992 00:35:16,819 --> 00:35:14,700 tax rebates that an ordinary stores 993 00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:16,829 don't there's just a whole bunch of 994 00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:18,030 things that they get that they shouldn't 995 00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:19,440 get and if you put everyone on an even 996 00:35:23,809 --> 00:35:20,640 playing field then it would be fine 997 00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:23,819 right now we tilt the we put our thumb 998 00:35:27,260 --> 00:35:25,260 on the scale for chains way too much 999 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:27,270 yeah I think most people like the idea 1000 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:32,250 of the the local grocer or etc but how 1001 00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:34,050 would you implement that when it comes 1002 00:35:39,380 --> 00:35:37,680 to say Starbucks I mean puts me on 1003 00:35:40,819 --> 00:35:39,390 Starbucks you 1004 00:35:42,289 --> 00:35:40,829 break well I'm just using Starbucks as 1005 00:35:45,410 --> 00:35:42,299 an example I mean because it's probably 1006 00:35:48,140 --> 00:35:45,420 the biggest chain in America you know I 1007 00:35:49,490 --> 00:35:48,150 like to joke that the the hear about the 1008 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:49,500 new Starbucks that opened up yeah it 1009 00:35:54,650 --> 00:35:51,890 opened up in the bathroom of a Starbucks 1010 00:35:56,809 --> 00:35:54,660 you know I I don't know I would probably 1011 00:35:59,180 --> 00:35:56,819 some of this stuff some of this stuff 1012 00:36:03,019 --> 00:35:59,190 has to do with local ordinances so it 1013 00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:03,029 might be that Starbucks has a you know 1014 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:06,230 giving it local tax breaks oftentimes 1015 00:36:11,180 --> 00:36:08,970 landlords prefer renting to a Starbucks 1016 00:36:13,309 --> 00:36:11,190 or to like a chain bank or something 1017 00:36:14,359 --> 00:36:13,319 like that because they they they feel 1018 00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:14,369 that they're theirs they're more 1019 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:16,859 reliable they may be Starbucks has a 1020 00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:18,690 lower cost of capital so one way you 1021 00:36:23,779 --> 00:36:21,089 could address it is by by expanding the 1022 00:36:26,450 --> 00:36:23,789 amount of capital that the government 1023 00:36:27,710 --> 00:36:26,460 lends to small business you know there's 1024 00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:27,720 there's an it there's a number there are 1025 00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:31,049 zoning ordinances you could do but yeah 1026 00:36:34,670 --> 00:36:33,150 generally speaking you know big big 1027 00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:34,680 businesses and chains have a bunch of 1028 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:36,510 advantages that are that are unfair and 1029 00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:37,410 I think if you got rid of those 1030 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:39,750 advantages or neutralize them then what 1031 00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:41,010 would happen is people would compete 1032 00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,500 based on serving the community with good 1033 00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:45,599 products and services and I think you'd 1034 00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:46,710 still have Starbucks but you just 1035 00:36:49,730 --> 00:36:48,390 wouldn't you know you you you would also 1036 00:36:51,259 --> 00:36:49,740 have you know a lot more local coffee 1037 00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:51,269 stores what do you think about corporate 1038 00:36:55,549 --> 00:36:53,609 responsibility because it seems as if 1039 00:36:58,009 --> 00:36:55,559 it's kind of at an all-time high 1040 00:37:00,079 --> 00:36:58,019 to some extent staying on Starbucks for 1041 00:37:01,150 --> 00:37:00,089 a second you know there's a lot of 1042 00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:01,160 things 1043 00:37:05,779 --> 00:37:04,049 charities and they're the guys that said 1044 00:37:07,130 --> 00:37:05,789 that now anybody can use their bathroom 1045 00:37:08,809 --> 00:37:07,140 you don't even need to be a customer 1046 00:37:11,210 --> 00:37:08,819 etcetera so there being a pretty good 1047 00:37:12,980 --> 00:37:11,220 corporate citizen it seems like there's 1048 00:37:15,980 --> 00:37:12,990 a lot of focus on that and these 1049 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:15,990 corporations are you know to a large 1050 00:37:22,220 --> 00:37:19,170 extent rising to the occasion I mean I 1051 00:37:24,349 --> 00:37:22,230 think it's hard to to argue that like 1052 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:24,359 something like Perdue Pharmaceuticals is 1053 00:37:27,859 --> 00:37:25,890 rising to the occasion I mean they're 1054 00:37:30,980 --> 00:37:27,869 drug dealers right what they do they've 1055 00:37:34,130 --> 00:37:30,990 helped you know I think kill a lot of 1056 00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:34,140 people which is just awful so I think 1057 00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:35,670 you can you can hope for every example 1058 00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:37,049 you could have I could kind of probably 1059 00:37:40,099 --> 00:37:38,609 bring back a different example I mean 1060 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:40,109 generally speaking I just don't think 1061 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:43,650 that it is should be up to corporations 1062 00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:47,730 and corporate leaders to to run our 1063 00:37:50,839 --> 00:37:49,500 democracy I think if we want to take 1064 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:50,849 care of ourselves and our communities 1065 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:52,650 and our families and our churches you 1066 00:37:55,070 --> 00:37:53,370 know we should do 1067 00:37:56,660 --> 00:37:55,080 that through our through our communities 1068 00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:56,670 and through our public institutions it's 1069 00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:58,170 just it just shouldn't be up to them 1070 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:00,660 it's not like Jeff Bezos puts ten 1071 00:38:05,150 --> 00:38:02,370 billion dollars into climate change like 1072 00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:05,160 you know I'm sorry but like if we want 1073 00:38:08,090 --> 00:38:06,270 to deal with climate change we should 1074 00:38:09,710 --> 00:38:08,100 deal with climate change through our 1075 00:38:12,170 --> 00:38:09,720 public institutions and have that debate 1076 00:38:13,610 --> 00:38:12,180 it shouldn't be up to some guy worth 130 1077 00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:13,620 billion dollars to just kind of tell us 1078 00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:15,960 what we're gonna do that's not okay yeah 1079 00:38:19,940 --> 00:38:18,240 well but you but you got to appreciate 1080 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:19,950 billionaire is willing to give their 1081 00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:23,970 money to good causes no I mean I I I 1082 00:38:27,230 --> 00:38:25,560 appreciate you know you giving your 1083 00:38:29,330 --> 00:38:27,240 money to good causes or me giving money 1084 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:29,340 or like people doing charity but when a 1085 00:38:33,110 --> 00:38:31,290 billionaire puts ten billion dollars 1086 00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:33,120 into a foundation tax-free by the way so 1087 00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,700 it's subsidized by us they're not giving 1088 00:38:38,870 --> 00:38:37,440 money away they're buying political 1089 00:38:40,580 --> 00:38:38,880 power you can see that with Michael 1090 00:38:42,770 --> 00:38:40,590 Bloomberg you know all of his donations 1091 00:38:44,570 --> 00:38:42,780 right for cuz I'm a Democrat right but 1092 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:44,580 he's buying up all of the Democrats 1093 00:38:48,260 --> 00:38:46,410 right now as many as he can 1094 00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:48,270 many of these nonprofits and civil 1095 00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:50,250 society groups just with money and that 1096 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:52,350 was charity right but he was really 1097 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:53,850 buying power and I mean he'll do the 1098 00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:55,650 same on the Republican side I think you 1099 00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:56,730 know if he doesn't end up winning the 1100 00:39:00,170 --> 00:38:58,410 nominations it'll be amazing how many 1101 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:00,180 Republicans all of a sudden decide that 1102 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:01,650 Mike Bloomberg is really what we need 1103 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:04,290 that's just money talking and it's tax 1104 00:39:08,060 --> 00:39:05,730 free money too that's the other thing is 1105 00:39:09,740 --> 00:39:08,070 it it's subsidized by our tax money know 1106 00:39:12,860 --> 00:39:09,750 if you or I were to give some money away 1107 00:39:14,540 --> 00:39:12,870 like you know to you know whoever it's 1108 00:39:15,890 --> 00:39:14,550 like it's not gonna be it we're not 1109 00:39:17,420 --> 00:39:15,900 really buying power we don't have enough 1110 00:39:19,700 --> 00:39:17,430 money to buy power so in a lot of ways 1111 00:39:21,140 --> 00:39:19,710 it's just it's just a scale issue right 1112 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:21,150 so so that's kind of the way that I 1113 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:22,530 would look at it mm-hmm 1114 00:39:27,350 --> 00:39:24,450 yeah well you know I would say I don't 1115 00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:27,360 begrudge you know an subjective income 1116 00:39:31,070 --> 00:39:28,920 inequality which is sort of where that's 1117 00:39:33,890 --> 00:39:31,080 going to is that for me the focus should 1118 00:39:36,890 --> 00:39:33,900 be on how are the poor of the country 1119 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:36,900 doing if you have income inequality that 1120 00:39:41,540 --> 00:39:38,850 in because you're measuring all these 1121 00:39:43,250 --> 00:39:41,550 billionaires well I don't begrudge a 1122 00:39:45,770 --> 00:39:43,260 billionaire as long as you got it 1123 00:39:48,530 --> 00:39:45,780 ethically but I don't begrudge somebody 1124 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:48,540 being uber successful I think part of 1125 00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:50,130 the reason why we have sub Buber 1126 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:52,350 successful people in America is the fact 1127 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:54,450 that you know they're they're making 1128 00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:55,890 money not just from America but but from 1129 00:40:02,870 --> 00:39:58,290 exporting whatever it is whether it be 1130 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:02,880 Amazon or others but my focus is on how 1131 00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:04,890 the poor is doing it sounds like you 1132 00:40:06,890 --> 00:40:06,540 don't necessarily agree with that that 1133 00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:06,900 you think 1134 00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:08,990 income inequality is inherently bad 1135 00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:10,859 irrespective of how well the poor is 1136 00:40:15,620 --> 00:40:13,710 doing well I think what I look when I 1137 00:40:18,380 --> 00:40:15,630 look at somebody who's poor I don't see 1138 00:40:20,180 --> 00:40:18,390 somebody who who you know that's like I 1139 00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:20,190 don't see a sad situation I see somebody 1140 00:40:23,269 --> 00:40:22,380 who isn't free right I don't think I 1141 00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:23,279 don't think we should get rid of all 1142 00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:25,260 inequality I think I think inequality is 1143 00:40:29,089 --> 00:40:26,910 generally a bad thing extreme inequality 1144 00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:29,099 but like a little bit of inequality is 1145 00:40:34,819 --> 00:40:31,920 fine right in our inequality right now 1146 00:40:37,490 --> 00:40:34,829 or what yes absolutely and is that 1147 00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:37,500 because we have such wealthy people as 1148 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:39,150 opposed to such poor people because I 1149 00:40:42,410 --> 00:40:40,650 think the state of the poor broadly 1150 00:40:45,529 --> 00:40:42,420 speaking I know it's not politically 1151 00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:45,539 correct to say this but are doing pretty 1152 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:47,520 well certainly relative to the rest of 1153 00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:49,770 the world certainly their buying power 1154 00:40:54,140 --> 00:40:51,359 we're gonna get to Walmart if we have 1155 00:40:57,079 --> 00:40:54,150 time in a second but I mean you know 1156 00:40:59,359 --> 00:40:57,089 poor in America is car in the driveway 1157 00:41:01,579 --> 00:40:59,369 plasma television set inside air 1158 00:41:04,599 --> 00:41:01,589 conditioning heat etcetera electricity 1159 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:04,609 poor in other countries is a shack with 1160 00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:07,890 no plumbing no air conditioning etc so 1161 00:41:11,779 --> 00:41:09,569 the poor in America are actually 1162 00:41:13,849 --> 00:41:11,789 relative to the rest of the world far 1163 00:41:16,010 --> 00:41:13,859 better off our poverty line is far 1164 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:16,020 higher than any other country look I 1165 00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:19,770 mean I am ok so I think about like so 1166 00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:21,420 Bill Gates is worth a hundred billion 1167 00:41:27,019 --> 00:41:25,680 dollars or so right he did he's a really 1168 00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:27,029 good businessman 1169 00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:28,529 but he's not worth a hundred billion 1170 00:41:31,279 --> 00:41:29,609 dollars cuz he's a really good 1171 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:31,289 businessman he's worth a hundred billion 1172 00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:34,890 dollars because in the early 1980s he 1173 00:41:39,980 --> 00:41:37,049 figured out a way to put up a toll booth 1174 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:39,990 on top of a personal computer and every 1175 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:41,250 single personal computer 1176 00:41:46,099 --> 00:41:43,890 he took a toll because he was able to 1177 00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:46,109 establish market power through Microsoft 1178 00:41:50,059 --> 00:41:47,760 Windows and then later he was able to 1179 00:41:52,730 --> 00:41:50,069 destroy all of his competition and put 1180 00:41:54,380 --> 00:41:52,740 Microsoft Office destroy WordPerfect and 1181 00:41:56,089 --> 00:41:54,390 Lotus and all the rest of them and so 1182 00:41:57,380 --> 00:41:56,099 instead of being worth 50 million a 1183 00:41:59,210 --> 00:41:57,390 hundred million dollars he's worth a 1184 00:42:01,490 --> 00:41:59,220 hundred billion dollars but that's not a 1185 00:42:03,319 --> 00:42:01,500 function of him producing a lot of great 1186 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:03,329 stuff it's a function of him erecting a 1187 00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,130 toll booth in a vital part of the 1188 00:42:09,470 --> 00:42:07,440 economy I'm not saying that we need to 1189 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:09,480 like redistribute money from Bill Gates 1190 00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:11,970 to the poor what I'm saying is toll 1191 00:42:17,180 --> 00:42:14,609 booths are bad because we all have to 1192 00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:17,190 pay those tolls and being poor in this 1193 00:42:20,730 --> 00:42:18,720 country just means that you have to pay 1194 00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:20,740 a lot more tolls than everyone else 1195 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:23,350 and it sucks it's you know it's super 1196 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:25,330 bureaucratic it's unbelievably annoying 1197 00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:28,090 it would be like going to the DMV like 1198 00:42:30,780 --> 00:42:28,960 every day 1199 00:42:32,250 --> 00:42:30,790 15 times a day that's what it's like to 1200 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:32,260 be poor in this country and it just 1201 00:42:37,050 --> 00:42:34,810 sucks and those tolls exist because 1202 00:42:38,970 --> 00:42:37,060 we've allowed people like Bill Gates to 1203 00:42:41,850 --> 00:42:38,980 erect them in every single part of the 1204 00:42:43,140 --> 00:42:41,860 economy so the reason I believe that we 1205 00:42:45,450 --> 00:42:43,150 should address monopolies is because a 1206 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:45,460 monopoly is a private government and an 1207 00:42:49,530 --> 00:42:47,410 unaccountable of private government and 1208 00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:49,540 like unaccountable governments anywhere 1209 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:52,270 private monopolies are a pain in the ass 1210 00:42:56,190 --> 00:42:54,130 and they take away our freedom and our 1211 00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:56,200 liberty and they are doing it badly to 1212 00:42:59,880 --> 00:42:58,000 the poor but don't get you know don't 1213 00:43:01,680 --> 00:42:59,890 mistake it you know we are all in a 1214 00:43:03,690 --> 00:43:01,690 situation where if we allow these guys 1215 00:43:05,970 --> 00:43:03,700 to erect more and more toll booths we 1216 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:05,980 will all be exactly like that so don't 1217 00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:07,450 let them steal our Liberty and that's 1218 00:43:10,859 --> 00:43:08,910 why I think we have to address this 1219 00:43:12,660 --> 00:43:10,869 really quickly because I'll tell you one 1220 00:43:14,670 --> 00:43:12,670 other thing is it's not like you know 1221 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:14,680 oxycontin is just hitting the poor right 1222 00:43:19,530 --> 00:43:17,410 that's just taking a swath through the 1223 00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:19,540 American middle and upper class as well 1224 00:43:23,580 --> 00:43:21,280 right I mean this is this is dangerous 1225 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:23,590 stuff right this is about power over you 1226 00:43:31,980 --> 00:43:27,010 and me let's talk about Walmart now I 1227 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:31,990 assume you like Walmart well they make 1228 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:33,130 it personal because like you know 1229 00:43:37,290 --> 00:43:34,690 Walmart you know Sam Walton was a 1230 00:43:38,730 --> 00:43:37,300 incredibly hard worker and a brilliant 1231 00:43:40,590 --> 00:43:38,740 businessman a lot of the things that he 1232 00:43:44,430 --> 00:43:40,600 did were really innovative the guy would 1233 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:44,440 drive all night to get you know a bunch 1234 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:46,210 of underwear that was like that was 1235 00:43:49,230 --> 00:43:47,650 cheap so that he could sell it like I 1236 00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:49,240 don't want to like diminish the 1237 00:43:53,460 --> 00:43:51,160 accomplishment of what he what he did 1238 00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:53,470 but what I think is problematic about 1239 00:43:56,730 --> 00:43:55,180 Walmart is the same thing that I think 1240 00:43:59,070 --> 00:43:56,740 is problematic about dollar stores or 1241 00:44:01,830 --> 00:43:59,080 Amazon or it's like he's winning or 1242 00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:01,840 Walmart is winning not based on its 1243 00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:04,150 ability to deliver better services or 1244 00:44:08,190 --> 00:44:06,550 better inventory flow but just because 1245 00:44:10,070 --> 00:44:08,200 it's bigger and has more bargaining 1246 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:10,080 power so if you wanted to start a 1247 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:12,010 competitor or if you wanted to sell 1248 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:14,290 through Walmart you know create a better 1249 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:16,810 mousetrap you know good luck right 1250 00:44:20,730 --> 00:44:18,250 sitting down in bentonville with a 1251 00:44:22,980 --> 00:44:20,740 hundred lawyers making sure you can't 1252 00:44:24,359 --> 00:44:22,990 get any margin right versus like you 1253 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:24,369 know a lot of products are tested in 1254 00:44:28,170 --> 00:44:26,770 bodegas in New York because bodega is 1255 00:44:29,460 --> 00:44:28,180 it's just like a random guy that owns it 1256 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:29,470 and you can go to it would be like hey I 1257 00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:31,330 made this widget can you put it on your 1258 00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:32,560 shelf and see if it sells and he's like 1259 00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:34,720 yeah sure and then if it sells then it 1260 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:36,609 expands you can't do that in Walmart now 1261 00:44:40,260 --> 00:44:38,530 you can't people seem to love Walmart 1262 00:44:44,910 --> 00:44:40,270 because it's got everything they need at 1263 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:44,920 a cheap price well I mean like it's the 1264 00:44:48,839 --> 00:44:46,810 in a lot of places you know they have 1265 00:44:50,849 --> 00:44:48,849 50% in a bunch of different markets they 1266 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:50,859 have they're essentially the monopolist 1267 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:53,410 of over over groceries and you know I 1268 00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:55,090 think that you can look at at cheap 1269 00:44:59,400 --> 00:44:57,970 prices and say oh you know that's that's 1270 00:45:01,770 --> 00:44:59,410 all that matters 1271 00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:01,780 first of all you know I don't want to 1272 00:45:05,339 --> 00:45:03,550 get into like the details but in some 1273 00:45:06,660 --> 00:45:05,349 areas you know wall or they may look 1274 00:45:08,010 --> 00:45:06,670 like they have cheap prices but it's 1275 00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:08,020 maybe because they're selling you know 1276 00:45:11,220 --> 00:45:10,000 you buy toilet paper roll it has less 1277 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:11,230 toilet paper in it or something like 1278 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:12,490 that that's that's a weight dollar 1279 00:45:14,580 --> 00:45:13,570 source doesn't I haven't looked at 1280 00:45:17,099 --> 00:45:14,590 closely at Walmart 1281 00:45:18,750 --> 00:45:17,109 but if you if you work for Walmart right 1282 00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,760 or if you're a supplier to Walmart it 1283 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:20,560 looks very different right so you used 1284 00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:22,090 to have 10 different stores in a town 1285 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:23,710 the butcher the baker the candlestick 1286 00:45:28,830 --> 00:45:26,650 maker right just you know say that way 1287 00:45:30,839 --> 00:45:28,840 and now all of those have been rolled up 1288 00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:30,849 and put under Walmart and if the manager 1289 00:45:34,290 --> 00:45:32,590 of that Walmart is a jerk good luck 1290 00:45:35,970 --> 00:45:34,300 finding somewhere else don't work right 1291 00:45:38,220 --> 00:45:35,980 you can't because there isn't a place 1292 00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:38,230 but you know if the you could you can 1293 00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:40,000 work for 10 to you and 10 different 1294 00:45:44,430 --> 00:45:42,160 options before right and also those 1295 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:44,440 stores were part of the community in a 1296 00:45:47,940 --> 00:45:45,970 way that the people that are structuring 1297 00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:47,950 Walmart in Bentonville are not part of 1298 00:45:52,290 --> 00:45:49,990 the community that you're in and so what 1299 00:45:54,329 --> 00:45:52,300 you see is like Walmart's are associated 1300 00:45:56,670 --> 00:45:54,339 with speaking of addictive behavior or 1301 00:45:58,770 --> 00:45:56,680 you know sugar right they stick sugar in 1302 00:46:00,690 --> 00:45:58,780 a lot of the foods so you know Walmart's 1303 00:46:02,730 --> 00:46:00,700 at what much presence in an area is 1304 00:46:05,099 --> 00:46:02,740 associated with an increase in obesity 1305 00:46:07,290 --> 00:46:05,109 because they have an interest in making 1306 00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:07,300 sure that we eat unhealthy food because 1307 00:46:11,940 --> 00:46:09,940 it's easier to sell it so the problems 1308 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:11,950 with these these large institutions yeah 1309 00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:13,570 and well not to mention that they're 1310 00:46:17,970 --> 00:46:15,849 sourcing a large percentage of their 1311 00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:17,980 goods from China well that's true yeah 1312 00:46:22,140 --> 00:46:20,680 and and and and and by the way the 1313 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:22,150 reason that they did that in the 90s 1314 00:46:25,020 --> 00:46:23,530 it's not just that they're buying from 1315 00:46:27,359 --> 00:46:25,030 China they actually went to all their 1316 00:46:28,770 --> 00:46:27,369 suppliers and they said hey if you want 1317 00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:28,780 to sell into Walmart and you have to 1318 00:46:32,099 --> 00:46:30,070 sell into Walmart because Walmart had a 1319 00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:32,109 lot of market power you have to move to 1320 00:46:36,990 --> 00:46:34,540 China Walmart actually forced their 1321 00:46:39,630 --> 00:46:37,000 suppliers to move to China and that's a 1322 00:46:41,790 --> 00:46:39,640 really like why should Walmart be making 1323 00:46:44,070 --> 00:46:41,800 that decision about where we make our 1324 00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:44,080 things right but they did right that's 1325 00:46:47,370 --> 00:46:45,760 really serious problem are monopolies 1326 00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:47,380 are governing in a way that can be 1327 00:46:50,549 --> 00:46:48,190 really harmful 1328 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:50,559 yeah so that's a great point that you 1329 00:46:54,329 --> 00:46:52,450 make in the book I think is people 1330 00:46:56,099 --> 00:46:54,339 aren't realizing the impact that this is 1331 00:47:00,450 --> 00:46:56,109 having so let me just kind of wrap up 1332 00:47:03,150 --> 00:47:00,460 with with two big US political issues 1333 00:47:04,980 --> 00:47:03,160 and how in your view monopolies has 1334 00:47:06,839 --> 00:47:04,990 these are caused it or affected so let's 1335 00:47:10,319 --> 00:47:06,849 start with the debt huge whatever we're 1336 00:47:11,819 --> 00:47:10,329 at 23 trillion dollar debt it's shocking 1337 00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:11,829 to me that none of the candidates on 1338 00:47:15,390 --> 00:47:13,359 either side are really talking about it 1339 00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:15,400 but I think chickens are gonna come home 1340 00:47:19,559 --> 00:47:18,250 to roost on this eventually but how do 1341 00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:19,569 you relate your concerns about 1342 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:23,710 monopolies with US debt well I'm not I'm 1343 00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:25,690 not sure there's a direct link because I 1344 00:47:31,349 --> 00:47:28,960 mean I do go into finance in my book so 1345 00:47:33,870 --> 00:47:31,359 you know that that's more like a issue 1346 00:47:35,819 --> 00:47:33,880 of like the Federal Reserve and and and 1347 00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:35,829 fiscal policy and they're just kind of 1348 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:37,510 philosophical choices about who creates 1349 00:47:43,319 --> 00:47:41,650 money in society so I think that's like 1350 00:47:46,109 --> 00:47:43,329 one of the one of the driving forces 1351 00:47:48,359 --> 00:47:46,119 behind a lot of the concentration is the 1352 00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:48,369 concentration of power on Wall Street in 1353 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:50,559 large banks and hedge funds and private 1354 00:47:55,319 --> 00:47:52,930 equity groups they want to establish 1355 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:55,329 market power so that I mean that was 1356 00:47:57,599 --> 00:47:56,170 what they were trying to do with 1357 00:47:59,779 --> 00:47:57,609 something like we work or uber they're 1358 00:48:02,910 --> 00:47:59,789 trying to establish market power in 1359 00:48:05,549 --> 00:48:02,920 taxicabs or in rental properties so that 1360 00:48:07,230 --> 00:48:05,559 they can create more like stocks and 1361 00:48:09,329 --> 00:48:07,240 bonds that they could sell or control 1362 00:48:11,789 --> 00:48:09,339 and manipulate that's that's like what 1363 00:48:13,380 --> 00:48:11,799 we've seen this this rise in power on 1364 00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:13,390 Wall Street and they have people on Wall 1365 00:48:18,359 --> 00:48:16,000 Street have specific ideas about how the 1366 00:48:21,359 --> 00:48:18,369 government should structure our monetary 1367 00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:21,369 system and I generally speaking I think 1368 00:48:27,029 --> 00:48:24,250 that I'm not you know I don't think that 1369 00:48:28,529 --> 00:48:27,039 a huge national debt is necessarily that 1370 00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:28,539 big a problem although it can become a 1371 00:48:32,609 --> 00:48:30,880 problem in certain contexts but it very 1372 00:48:35,970 --> 00:48:32,619 much depends but I see the general 1373 00:48:37,650 --> 00:48:35,980 problem is who governs is it is it urged 1374 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:37,660 it a private government on Wall Street 1375 00:48:41,849 --> 00:48:39,490 through monopolies or is it a public 1376 00:48:43,470 --> 00:48:41,859 government in our state capitals in our 1377 00:48:44,940 --> 00:48:43,480 cities municipal governments and in our 1378 00:48:47,370 --> 00:48:44,950 federal government so that's kind of how 1379 00:48:49,710 --> 00:48:47,380 I look at it so some people would call 1380 00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:49,720 the dead a ticking time bomb it sounds 1381 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:52,089 like you know you would say monopolies 1382 00:48:55,260 --> 00:48:53,770 are a ticking time but let me let me let 1383 00:48:57,599 --> 00:48:55,270 me frame it so a lot of the debt problem 1384 00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:57,609 is actually Medicare right so Medicare 1385 00:49:01,650 --> 00:49:00,160 we have huge unfunded liabilities with 1386 00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:01,660 Medicare and the reason that 1387 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:04,089 that Medicare is so expensive medical 1388 00:49:06,750 --> 00:49:05,650 costs are about twice as high in the US 1389 00:49:08,579 --> 00:49:06,760 as they are anywhere else in the world 1390 00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:08,589 that is purely a monopoly problem that 1391 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:10,750 is purely pricing so it's that hospitals 1392 00:49:15,059 --> 00:49:12,730 have merged and they have they just we 1393 00:49:16,770 --> 00:49:15,069 are all price takers and so everything 1394 00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:16,780 from knee surgeries to you know an 1395 00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:18,640 aspirin in a hospital cost way too much 1396 00:49:23,819 --> 00:49:20,559 way much much more than it is all over 1397 00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:23,829 the world and and so that's actually 1398 00:49:28,020 --> 00:49:25,599 driving this idea that we have to have 1399 00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:28,030 medical costs rising it whatever for 5% 1400 00:49:31,410 --> 00:49:29,710 a year twice the cost of inflation 1401 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:31,420 that's what's really driving a lot of 1402 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:33,010 the the problem with our debt and you 1403 00:49:36,299 --> 00:49:34,690 also see with the military right we 1404 00:49:38,730 --> 00:49:36,309 obtain way too much for weapon systems 1405 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:38,740 because you know Clinton consolidated 1406 00:49:44,010 --> 00:49:41,170 our prime defense contractors from about 1407 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:44,020 a hundred to five in the 1990s and so 1408 00:49:49,470 --> 00:49:46,510 guess what when you have only one option 1409 00:49:51,150 --> 00:49:49,480 for a fighter jet you have to pay the 1410 00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:51,160 price that they tell you and that's the 1411 00:49:54,599 --> 00:49:53,140 situation that we're in so a lot of the 1412 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:54,609 problem that sort of fiscal problems 1413 00:49:58,620 --> 00:49:57,130 that we have are actually related to the 1414 00:50:00,420 --> 00:49:58,630 concentration of power in the private 1415 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:00,430 sector and to be clear you're a 1416 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:03,130 free-market advocate you just want 1417 00:50:08,190 --> 00:50:05,650 essentially more rules to the game right 1418 00:50:09,420 --> 00:50:08,200 I want I want Marcus that support you 1419 00:50:11,339 --> 00:50:09,430 know the things that we care about I 1420 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:11,349 want markets market structure so I think 1421 00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:13,450 of markets as the rules are set by 1422 00:50:18,029 --> 00:50:16,000 politics right they always are so we 1423 00:50:19,740 --> 00:50:18,039 should set rules that protect the family 1424 00:50:21,569 --> 00:50:19,750 that protect the community that protect 1425 00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:21,579 the church that protect our ability to 1426 00:50:25,529 --> 00:50:23,710 create important goods and services that 1427 00:50:28,529 --> 00:50:25,539 we need that protect our defense that 1428 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:28,539 protect our defenses you know that and 1429 00:50:33,269 --> 00:50:30,010 that's what we that's what we did from 1430 00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,279 the 1790s really until the 1970s and we 1431 00:50:37,829 --> 00:50:35,680 just kind of went kablooey starting in 1432 00:50:39,390 --> 00:50:37,839 the late 1970s for reasons I go into in 1433 00:50:40,740 --> 00:50:39,400 Goliath like there was a philosophical 1434 00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:40,750 change on both the left and the right 1435 00:50:46,349 --> 00:50:43,839 kind of weird mix of like libertarians 1436 00:50:48,269 --> 00:50:46,359 and and Marxists and and now the world 1437 00:50:50,819 --> 00:50:48,279 is just crazy and we can't seem to get a 1438 00:50:52,470 --> 00:50:50,829 hold of our problems anymore so in in 1439 00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:52,480 healthcare this was the other hot-button 1440 00:50:55,470 --> 00:50:53,950 issue of the day that I wanted to get 1441 00:50:57,630 --> 00:50:55,480 your thoughts on and we've already been 1442 00:50:59,339 --> 00:50:57,640 touching on it but it seems to me the 1443 00:51:01,500 --> 00:50:59,349 problem in healthcare is the lack of 1444 00:51:02,789 --> 00:51:01,510 free markets you know under Obama care 1445 00:51:06,059 --> 00:51:02,799 he's given all these power to the 1446 00:51:08,190 --> 00:51:06,069 insurance he's talked about monopolies 1447 00:51:10,140 --> 00:51:08,200 that they have people don't even know 1448 00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:10,150 what the pricing is of anything because 1449 00:51:14,010 --> 00:51:11,710 the insurance can be pays for everything 1450 00:51:15,180 --> 00:51:14,020 so you don't see like the McDonald's 1451 00:51:16,620 --> 00:51:15,190 price Oh 1452 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:16,630 no idea what any of these charged so 1453 00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:17,770 you've got you put a middleman between 1454 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:21,250 the consumer and the provider right 1455 00:51:26,430 --> 00:51:23,890 and so that's increased costs and we 1456 00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:26,440 don't we haven't gone socialized 1457 00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:27,730 medicine like other countries which 1458 00:51:31,050 --> 00:51:29,230 absolutely hundreds that control the 1459 00:51:32,910 --> 00:51:31,060 cost the government says this is what 1460 00:51:35,309 --> 00:51:32,920 we're paying take it or leave it right I 1461 00:51:38,130 --> 00:51:35,319 think that's the conundrum that we're in 1462 00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:38,140 is that we've got some free market but 1463 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:40,030 not near enough so yeah we have the 1464 00:51:45,420 --> 00:51:42,490 worst of all world it's like we've got a 1465 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:45,430 single single yeah monopoly system but 1466 00:51:49,950 --> 00:51:46,810 it's private monopolies that are engaged 1467 00:51:52,349 --> 00:51:49,960 in my solution would be go way more free 1468 00:51:54,450 --> 00:51:52,359 market and get rid of all these 1469 00:51:56,190 --> 00:51:54,460 government controls and regulations on 1470 00:51:59,040 --> 00:51:56,200 health care that add all these burdens 1471 00:52:00,900 --> 00:51:59,050 and costs and so on let's allow the new 1472 00:52:02,490 --> 00:52:00,910 economy to really take over and allow 1473 00:52:05,569 --> 00:52:02,500 people to talk to their doctors on apps 1474 00:52:07,740 --> 00:52:05,579 and so on take advantage of all of the 1475 00:52:09,990 --> 00:52:07,750 technological advances that we have and 1476 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:10,000 so forth to allow free market solutions 1477 00:52:13,260 --> 00:52:11,530 to come in to play you know the obvious 1478 00:52:16,710 --> 00:52:13,270 example that you hear about is that you 1479 00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:16,720 know the cost of lasix is going down the 1480 00:52:19,530 --> 00:52:18,310 cost of breast implants is going down 1481 00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:19,540 the things that are elective the 1482 00:52:23,309 --> 00:52:21,280 insurance doesn't cover those prices are 1483 00:52:27,089 --> 00:52:23,319 coming down whereas everything else is 1484 00:52:28,410 --> 00:52:27,099 going up so do you agree you'd like to 1485 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:28,420 see more free market solutions in 1486 00:52:31,319 --> 00:52:29,890 healthcare or do you go on the side of 1487 00:52:33,359 --> 00:52:31,329 nope just give it all to the government 1488 00:52:37,050 --> 00:52:33,369 well you can do it both ways right so so 1489 00:52:39,089 --> 00:52:37,060 Indiana Congressman Jim banks Republican 1490 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:39,099 has a bill that I think is the best bill 1491 00:52:45,420 --> 00:52:41,290 on health care right now and what his 1492 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:45,430 bill says is that is that we're gonna in 1493 00:52:52,109 --> 00:52:48,010 an area where the hospitals are 1494 00:52:54,089 --> 00:52:52,119 basically a monopoly then you you know 1495 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:54,099 with a certain concentration level and 1496 00:52:56,670 --> 00:52:55,450 those hospitals the government is just 1497 00:52:58,859 --> 00:52:56,680 going to tell those hospitals what they 1498 00:53:00,180 --> 00:52:58,869 can charge for their services so they're 1499 00:53:02,430 --> 00:53:00,190 gonna have to accept Medicare prices 1500 00:53:03,839 --> 00:53:02,440 right because they're already doing 1501 00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:03,849 private price fixing because they're a 1502 00:53:07,829 --> 00:53:06,010 monopoly so if it's going to be private 1503 00:53:10,859 --> 00:53:07,839 price fixing let's just make that public 1504 00:53:13,170 --> 00:53:10,869 price fix however if those hospitals 1505 00:53:15,180 --> 00:53:13,180 don't want to do that then they can 1506 00:53:18,109 --> 00:53:15,190 break themselves up and they can compete 1507 00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,119 against each other over price right and 1508 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:20,800 that so that that would be the ideal way 1509 00:53:24,420 --> 00:53:23,050 to deal with pricing it's like okay guys 1510 00:53:26,910 --> 00:53:24,430 you don't want to have the government 1511 00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:26,920 step in and give you a price then you 1512 00:53:29,819 --> 00:53:27,910 have to make sure that it's a 1513 00:53:32,319 --> 00:53:29,829 competitive market 1514 00:53:33,819 --> 00:53:32,329 yeah well that deals with emergency 1515 00:53:37,149 --> 00:53:33,829 situations sometimes I feel like I don't 1516 00:53:38,979 --> 00:53:37,159 know no hospitals negotiate prices with 1517 00:53:40,509 --> 00:53:38,989 no not just emergencies like they 1518 00:53:42,999 --> 00:53:40,519 negotiate prices with insurance 1519 00:53:45,789 --> 00:53:43,009 companies well you would want the 1520 00:53:48,849 --> 00:53:45,799 government to regulate everything that 1521 00:53:50,109 --> 00:53:48,859 this hospital can charge I mean I don't 1522 00:53:52,659 --> 00:53:50,119 think their situation but they already 1523 00:53:55,899 --> 00:53:52,669 do I mean Medicare government already 1524 00:53:56,949 --> 00:53:55,909 says for Medicare like we have we say 1525 00:53:58,299 --> 00:53:56,959 you know this is what a knee surgery 1526 00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:58,309 cost this is what these are the prices 1527 00:54:02,409 --> 00:53:59,839 that Medicare's can apology no two 1528 00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,419 different ways just why should health 1529 00:54:08,049 --> 00:54:05,119 care be treated any differently than any 1530 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:08,059 other industry I give the example of 1531 00:54:13,299 --> 00:54:10,130 food there's nothing more important to 1532 00:54:15,159 --> 00:54:13,309 your health than your food right so if 1533 00:54:16,689 --> 00:54:15,169 there's all this talk about government 1534 00:54:18,370 --> 00:54:16,699 taking over the health care industry 1535 00:54:21,189 --> 00:54:18,380 well hell the government should take 1536 00:54:22,569 --> 00:54:21,199 over food production and and supply and 1537 00:54:25,149 --> 00:54:22,579 give free food to everybody because 1538 00:54:29,289 --> 00:54:25,159 that's far more important than than 1539 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:29,299 doctors so do you agree I think I mean I 1540 00:54:32,649 --> 00:54:31,249 think we we have you know so one of the 1541 00:54:34,779 --> 00:54:32,659 things about when you look at like 1542 00:54:37,059 --> 00:54:34,789 competition policy which is what I do 1543 00:54:39,069 --> 00:54:37,069 you know every market is different right 1544 00:54:40,299 --> 00:54:39,079 because every market has different 1545 00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:40,309 physical realities like we don't 1546 00:54:44,109 --> 00:54:42,529 regulate you know telecommunications the 1547 00:54:45,789 --> 00:54:44,119 way that we regulate you know football 1548 00:54:48,669 --> 00:54:45,799 right for different industries and so 1549 00:54:51,189 --> 00:54:48,679 like you know so so why you know then 1550 00:54:53,009 --> 00:54:51,199 also healthcare is not just one industry 1551 00:54:54,489 --> 00:54:53,019 there's like a you know it's a 1552 00:54:56,559 --> 00:54:54,499 multitrillion-dollar 1553 00:54:57,459 --> 00:54:56,569 sector with lots and lots and lots and 1554 00:54:58,899 --> 00:54:57,469 lots and lots of different components 1555 00:55:01,509 --> 00:54:58,909 like everything but you mentioned like 1556 00:55:03,759 --> 00:55:01,519 pressed plants so like cancer to genome 1557 00:55:05,799 --> 00:55:03,769 pediatrics right it's just it's a 1558 00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:05,809 massive massive industry so we have to 1559 00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:07,609 like look and just say okay what do we 1560 00:55:13,269 --> 00:55:10,880 want our markets to look like in every 1561 00:55:15,609 --> 00:55:13,279 sort of kind of part of that sector we 1562 00:55:17,379 --> 00:55:15,619 do have a ton of rules in that sector as 1563 00:55:20,129 --> 00:55:17,389 we do kind of elsewhere so I think 1564 00:55:22,299 --> 00:55:20,139 you're right to point out the lack of of 1565 00:55:23,799 --> 00:55:22,309 competition and price discovery right 1566 00:55:25,779 --> 00:55:23,809 there are no prices in healthcare which 1567 00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:25,789 is insane and I think that's a really 1568 00:55:29,529 --> 00:55:27,649 big problem I mentioned how how there 1569 00:55:32,439 --> 00:55:29,539 are these kickbacks that helped induce 1570 00:55:34,179 --> 00:55:32,449 part of the opioid crisis right that's a 1571 00:55:35,949 --> 00:55:34,189 pricing problem so I think like we have 1572 00:55:37,569 --> 00:55:35,959 to go and get into these markets and 1573 00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:37,579 really make sure that you don't have 1574 00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:40,729 either private or excessive private or 1575 00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:43,280 excessive public power that's engage 1576 00:55:46,780 --> 00:55:45,440 that's that's enabling abusive behavior 1577 00:55:47,980 --> 00:55:46,790 through with the control of price that's 1578 00:55:50,530 --> 00:55:47,990 kind of the way that I would look at it 1579 00:55:52,330 --> 00:55:50,540 so that's why I like Jim banks is bill 1580 00:55:53,500 --> 00:55:52,340 because it's like okay you don't want to 1581 00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,510 set you don't want to set the price you 1582 00:55:56,350 --> 00:55:55,040 want to do price discovery cool there 1583 00:55:58,120 --> 00:55:56,360 has to be competitions but if there 1584 00:55:59,680 --> 00:55:58,130 isn't competition then we're just gonna 1585 00:56:02,680 --> 00:55:59,690 say you can only charge what Medicare 1586 00:56:04,330 --> 00:56:02,690 charges well let's wrap up with a final 1587 00:56:07,900 --> 00:56:04,340 question for people who share your 1588 00:56:12,430 --> 00:56:07,910 concern about monopoly power today in 1589 00:56:16,180 --> 00:56:12,440 America who should they vote for well I 1590 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:16,190 mean I you know I when I look at 1591 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:18,290 antitrust has really come back I mean 1592 00:56:22,690 --> 00:56:20,410 I'm a Democrat right so I I would say 1593 00:56:24,580 --> 00:56:22,700 probably vote for either Bernie or 1594 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:24,590 Warren right because those are the those 1595 00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:26,090 are the two candidates who said you know 1596 00:56:28,660 --> 00:56:27,440 really care about EHRs but all the 1597 00:56:31,180 --> 00:56:28,670 Democrats have talked about antitrust 1598 00:56:32,980 --> 00:56:31,190 and actually trumped I need not doing a 1599 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:32,990 particularly good job on concentrations 1600 00:56:38,290 --> 00:56:35,690 of power in terms of antitrust right now 1601 00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:38,300 but his DOJ is looking into google which 1602 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:40,010 i think is important and on some of the 1603 00:56:42,940 --> 00:56:41,930 trade things I think he's doing he's 1604 00:56:44,620 --> 00:56:42,950 doing some important things on 1605 00:56:46,570 --> 00:56:44,630 concentrations of power in China which 1606 00:56:48,310 --> 00:56:46,580 are very similar to monopolies so I 1607 00:56:50,530 --> 00:56:48,320 would you know personally I would go for 1608 00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,540 for Bernie or word but like I think that 1609 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:52,400 you know this is what I kind of care 1610 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:54,290 about I feel like you know people 1611 00:56:57,130 --> 00:56:55,850 prioritize different things in their 1612 00:56:58,810 --> 00:56:57,140 politics so I wouldn't presume to tell 1613 00:57:01,390 --> 00:56:58,820 people how to vote yeah well the only 1614 00:57:04,240 --> 00:57:01,400 problem with Bernie and Warren is they 1615 00:57:06,460 --> 00:57:04,250 want to have the government be in charge 1616 00:57:09,490 --> 00:57:06,470 of all healthcare so you have to take 1617 00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:09,500 you have to take what Addison you would 1618 00:57:13,690 --> 00:57:11,330 consider that bad because if you're 1619 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:13,700 mister anti-monopoly there's nothing 1620 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:16,010 worse than a government monopoly well I 1621 00:57:19,810 --> 00:57:17,810 would just as I'll say this like there 1622 00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:19,820 are 500,000 elected positions in this 1623 00:57:24,580 --> 00:57:22,160 country right and and you know if you 1624 00:57:27,730 --> 00:57:24,590 wanted there are local offices there are 1625 00:57:29,500 --> 00:57:27,740 state offices there are you know it's so 1626 00:57:30,730 --> 00:57:29,510 I would say like it's not just about you 1627 00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:30,740 know who you're voting for in terms of 1628 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:32,570 the presidency the most important thing 1629 00:57:35,910 --> 00:57:34,250 that you can do as a citizen is to 1630 00:57:38,740 --> 00:57:35,920 educate yourself on what these things 1631 00:57:41,490 --> 00:57:38,750 mean I can just tell you you know when I 1632 00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:41,500 deal with with enforcers and regulators 1633 00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:44,000 they pay very close attention to what 1634 00:57:48,940 --> 00:57:45,530 they think the public cares about and 1635 00:57:50,530 --> 00:57:48,950 they act on that so if you know it's why 1636 00:57:52,540 --> 00:57:50,540 I wrote Goliath right that's why I wrote 1637 00:57:54,430 --> 00:57:52,550 this book I want people to educate to 1638 00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:54,440 know how their government works how 1639 00:57:57,130 --> 00:57:56,810 their corporations work so that we can 1640 00:57:58,839 --> 00:57:57,140 take